Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Oct 31, 2008 16:35:08 GMT -5
If you would like to get a hearing of the entire album (in good, but not great quality), go here: rapidshare.com/files/159249893/THEFIREMANElectricArguments2008.rarI got the link from Zinhof's great music blog at zinhof.blog.hr/It will be interesting to see if Steve deletes these links. He did that to a Ringo Liverpool 8 preview link I posted on the old board. But he did NOT do it to the "Dylan third CD" links that Mr Self posted in the New Dylan thread a while ago. As I write this, the links are still there. What's my reason for posting the link to Electric Arguments? It's so people can hear the album before they buy. This is (I feel) especially important with hyped albums like this one. To read reviews on the net, you'd think Macca had produced a masterwork. But now each fan can make up his own mind before parting with his cash.
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Post by mrjinks on Oct 31, 2008 17:19:39 GMT -5
What's your opinion of it? I'll hold out until release day to listen, but I'm totally up for listening to others chime in with their thoughts...
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Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Oct 31, 2008 19:37:33 GMT -5
For its genre, it's OK ... ish. I certainly won't be buying it.
But Macca is to be congratulated for "having a go" at different stuff. But for all that, in the end, it IS only because it's Macca that I give it a few listens in the first place.
I guess, mrjinks, that this music is not my scene at all.
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Post by sexysadie on Nov 21, 2008 4:25:12 GMT -5
On the heels of the COL discussion, I'll restate my opinion that Paul has always pushed the "I'm an edgy guy" image a little too hard. The Fireman CD's come across to me as vaguely desperate attempts to be musically relevant to a younger demographic, and that's especially true of EA, what with Paul now rounding the bend toward 70 (or, as JSD would say, now that he is officially an old fart). Still, it is great to see the positive reviews. From what I've heard of EA, it isn't really my thing, and I don't know that I'll be buying it either.
But just a little reminder to those of you who are considering parting with your hard-earned money, particularly in these challenging economic times. If EA is successful (or even if it isn't), the "deluxe" version will be out in a couple of months, give or take. And if it IS successful, look for a third version to follow soon after, with what Paul calls the Fireman mask completely discarded, and "Paul McCartney" displayed prominently on the front of the ever-so-slightly reworked packaging--along with snippets of the glowing reviews.
Also included will be a DVD of Paul announcing to the guys in the studio control room how EA could have ruined his career. Now who could resist paying three times over just to get THAT?
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Nov 21, 2008 8:56:38 GMT -5
On the heels of the COL discussion, I'll restate my opinion that Paul has always pushed the "I'm an edgy guy" image a little too hard. The Fireman CD's come across to me as vaguely desperate attempts to be musically relevant to a younger demographic, and that's especially true of EA, what with Paul now rounding the bend toward 70 (or, as JSD would say, now that he is officially an old fart). Still, it is great to see the positive reviews. From what I've heard of EA, it isn't really my thing, and I don't know that I'll be buying it either. But just a little reminder to those of you who are considering parting with your hard-earned money, particularly in these challenging economic times. If EA is successful (or even if it isn't), the "deluxe" version will be out in a couple of months, give or take. And if it IS successful, look for a third version to follow soon after, with what Paul calls the Fireman mask completely discarded, and "Paul McCartney" displayed prominently on the front of the ever-so-slightly reworked packaging--along with snippets of the glowing reviews. Also included will be a DVD of Paul announcing to the guys in the studio control room how EA could have ruined his career. Now who could resist paying three times over just to get THAT? And in nine months, he'll give away a free version to readers of News of the World.
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 21, 2008 9:06:53 GMT -5
I appreciate the link to the EA album, thanks.
The last two nights I have played the first two albums by the fireman which I dutifully purchased in 1993 and 1998. Both were mildly interesting as I listened to them again for the first time since each was purchased, Rushes being the one I "enjoyed" most.
I was amazed to see that my near mint-condition copies of both would fetch about $75.00 each(or more) on E-Bay. Not that I would sell them because I have never viewed my Beatles' passion as an investment other than for the love and enjoyment of it.
Steve gives a glowing review of EA on his News Site. I have liked what I have heard so far. I am getting rather upbeat about this Tuesday release although McCabe's quick comment on it has brought me back down to earth a bit.
One thing is for sure, the fireman(Macca and Youth) has realized how the bread is buttered and Paul's singing voice is part of the mix on this new album. Having listened to all of the first two albums over the past 36 hours, I can say that EA will be different from those earlier selections.
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Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Nov 21, 2008 18:23:12 GMT -5
I don't know whether this has been posted on Steve's site or here or not, but you can download a BBC4 interview with Macca, mostly about Electric Arguments. The link is rapidshare.com/files/166052625/BBCR_MCYC.rarFrom 6.20 for about 2 minutes Paul talks about Carnival of Light.Broadcast 20 November.
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Todd
Very Clean
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Post by Todd on Nov 21, 2008 23:33:54 GMT -5
I haven't been over this way much since the switch, but I wanted to take a look tonight just to see what you all think about Electric Arguments. I was a little disappointed to see that nobody here is quite as excited as I am about it. Steve's review on the main site was reassuring to me though.
This album proves to me that there is still creativity in Paul McCartney. For me, this is the most interesting new release from him since I have been a fan. (I am 30 years old, which means I wasn't around for Ram or Band On The Run.) I've listened to the album several times now and have noticed that it has done something for me that only a handful of albums have done for me in the past year... it rewards subsequent listens.
This is a truly unique album, and I will happily spend my hard-earned money on it as soon as I can next Tuesday.
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Nov 22, 2008 0:54:25 GMT -5
I bought a copy of "Electric Arguments" this morning. Saturday releases have been the norm down here for some time now. For the benefit of any Aussies also looking to buy this, I only saw it at JB. No sign of it elsewhere at this point (But that may just be an Adelaide thing).
The album packaging is quite good, consisting of a gatefold card sleeve and including a substantial booklet. The booklet consists of photographs of Paul and another guy (I presume its Youth) creating artwork. Unfortunately, it does not include album notes, lyrics, or the usual credits etc.
I've only managed one listen, so far. What I normally do when I buy a new disc is to listen to it once to get a general impression and then return to it repeatedly over the next couple of days. Sometimes this confirms my first impression and sometimes it alters it.
To me its a bit of a mixed bag, but I take note of Todd's point about the "rewards of subsequent listens."
I had only heard two of the tracks from the net before buying. I quite liked the rocking "Nothing Too Much Just Out Of Sight," so I was happy to find that there is another rock track, "Highway," that is just as good, or better, in my opinion.
Steve, I have read your generous review and agree that "Sing The Changes" is very good. "Dance Till We're High" is another good song in a similar vein. I have to say though, that "Two Magpies" does nothing for me. I really want to like this album and maybe repeated listens will get me there, but at the moment I can't call "Electric Arguments" a masterpiece.
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Post by mrjinks on Nov 22, 2008 23:45:03 GMT -5
Did everyone notice there's a super-deluxo version of EA coming? It's on the Fireman's official website, and it's $94 (including shipping). Arrgh.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2008 0:26:08 GMT -5
Did everyone notice there's a super-deluxo version of EA coming? It's on the Fireman's official website, and it's $94 (including shipping). Arrgh. The free copy will do me even though i may never play it.......
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Post by sexysadie on Nov 25, 2008 6:57:42 GMT -5
Paul usually puts so much time and effort into his songs and CD's. Having heard/read a few interviews about EA, it's clear this is a different animal. It's Paul without a plan, grabbing words out of poems, picking up random instruments, basically larking about in a studio. It's a project defined not by an accomplished songwriter, but by a guy who thinks his awesomeness can only be captured by a single self-aggrandizing name (groan). Paul messes about, and Youth contrives it into a CD. EA is artifice, not art--which is not to say that, at times, it isn't enjoyable artifice. I've seen several comments from longtime McCartney fans who, like me, are turned off by the entire concept. With all due respect to Steve's review, I find it discouraging to see EA mentioned in the same sentence with BOTR, which was musical craftsmanship, a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. A bit like Pepper that way. I wish I could see the value of EA, other than as something "different" to keep Paul from getting bored, which is how he talks about it. Great. A 66-year-old with ADD. That it would be considered a masterpiece seems almost perverse. If EA is a critical and commercial success, I fear Paul will abandon the Chaoses and the MAFs for more Fireman-like antics. I'd hate to see him close out his career as freaky Paul, hawking quick-and-dirty efforts like EA on social networking sites frequented by teenagers. With his recently professed desire to release Carnival of Light, the 180-degree turnaround on performing in China, renewed dissection of his relationship with John and the demise of the Beatles (still searching for closure, I see), and the need to return to The Fireman to stave off boredom, I get the distinct feeling Paul is feeling very mortal these days. He's all over the map--not that he hasn't been for at least the past 25 years, but he seems especially unfocused and even unhappy these days. (He is described as feeling "comfortable and safe" with Nancy, which reinforces my suspicion that this is no passionate love story, and her wealth is a big piece of the puzzle.) While I'm sure he'd be gratified by the success of EA, I suspect he'd rather have a successful CD that he put his heart and soul into. I wonder how much satisfaction he really derives out of aimless experimentation in the studio, with Youth in the driver's seat. The expression about throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks comes to mind. EA in its entirety isn't "terrible," as one music critic on TV called it. When it's good, it's very good, but when it is bad, it is horrid. There just isn't enough "when it's good" to offset the "when it's horrid." One reviewer called it "weird and self-indulgent" and said the last quarter "sorely tests one's patience." Sounds about right to me.
Having read Steve's review, I'd be willing to concede there might be a gender issue here. Why men might like EA more than women, I don't know. Nor do I know why I'd concede the point.
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Post by revolver66 on Nov 25, 2008 11:15:28 GMT -5
This is a mixed bag if you ask me. That being said there are a Few macca gems here so it is a must for the Beatles/Solo collection.
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 25, 2008 12:22:26 GMT -5
This is a mixed bag if you ask me. That being said there are a Few macca gems here so it is a must for the Beatles/Solo collection. I appreciate the candid reviews written in this Thread by all, both pro, con and in the middle. I will buy this c.d. although I will have to clean up and go to the big city to even find it. I am pretty sure my local Wal-Mart(my town's only retailer of music besides Latino music) will not have it.
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Post by mrjinks on Nov 25, 2008 16:49:30 GMT -5
Interesting observation: Remember all the fuss last year when it turned out that "Memory Almost Full" could be rearranged to say "For My Soulmate LLM" Notice the sticker on the front cover (and in the booklet) for The FireMacca's "Electric Arguments"? No No Sam, It Ain't No Anagram.
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Post by OldFred on Nov 25, 2008 23:13:13 GMT -5
I'm listening to 'Electric Arguments' right now and I'm really enjoying it. It's definitely some of Paul's most adventurous music in years. Some of it reminds me a bit of Pete Townshend's experimental music on his 'Scoop' albums. Nice to see Paul stretch his musical muscles a little.
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 26, 2008 0:48:41 GMT -5
In the 63 minutes of Electric Arguments, the game has changed forever.
Paul McCartney is back or, more accurately, he has made that quantum leap from Sgt. Pepper right to the now, a leap which we have been praying for since late 1967 but instead got MMT and McCartney's backward slide through the dark period of 40-plus years.
Macca has finally turned his back on his solo legacy which was so predictable, so pre-ordained and so boring.
This is music to make love to all day long; it is music to summit a tall mountain to; it is music to embolden one to shake his fist at the sun and scream that death does not scare him!
Macca has seized the moment. There is no turning back. Bravo.
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Post by sexysadie on Nov 26, 2008 6:26:21 GMT -5
Maybe there isn't a gender issue. The Guardian reviewer gave EA one star. A guy. Unless "Alex" is Alexandra. www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/nov/21/fireman-electric-argumentsAnd Paul is throwing John under the bus again on the "who was really the edgy Beatle" issue. What's especially obnoxious about it this time is that he claims he isn't out to undermine John, and then forges right ahead and does it. Pipe and slippers? His insecurities are making him downright mean. Someone linked to this article on another thread, but I just can't resist adding it here. The reader comments are interesting--and revealing. Obviously, Paul has his defenders, and on occasion I'm one of them. But it is also clear that, as he ages, he isn't doing his (or the Beatles) legacy any favors with this kind of self-important blather. Why is he so defensive about EA and his need to "experiment," anyway? www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2008/nov/25/paul-mccartney-carnival-light
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Post by hotassun on Nov 26, 2008 10:29:35 GMT -5
Maybe there isn't a gender issue. The Guardian reviewer gave EA one star. A guy. Unless "Alex" is Alexandra. www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/nov/21/fireman-electric-argumentsAnd Paul is throwing John under the bus again on the "who was really the edgy Beatle" issue. What's especially obnoxious about it this time is that he claims he isn't out to undermine John, and then forges right ahead and does it. Pipe and slippers? His insecurities are making him downright mean. Someone linked to this article on another thread, but I just can't resist adding it here. The reader comments are interesting--and revealing. Obviously, Paul has his defenders, and on occasion I'm one of them. But it is also clear that, as he ages, he isn't doing his (or the Beatles) legacy any favors with this kind of self-important blather. Why is he so defensive about EA and his need to "experiment," anyway? www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2008/nov/25/paul-mccartney-carnival-lightLadies and getlemen: I give you the BITTER HALF of the SKY
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Post by jimc on Nov 26, 2008 15:03:27 GMT -5
In the 63 minutes of Electric Arguments, the game has changed forever. Paul McCartney is back or, more accurately, he has made that quantum leap from Sgt. Pepper right to the now, a leap which we have been praying for since late 1967 but instead got MMT and McCartney's backward slide through the dark period of 40-plus years. Macca has finally turned his back on his solo legacy which was so predictable, so pre-ordained and so boring. This is music to make love to all day long; it is music to summit a tall mountain to; it is music to embolden one to shake his fist at the sun and scream that death does not scare him! Macca has seized the moment. There is no turning back. Bravo. **bows** Well done, JSD. I bought it yesterday (9.98 at Target) and have had one listen without paying careful attention -- and it's impressive. Sing the Changes simply jumps out of the player. It's a glorious sounding CD so far.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 26, 2008 16:28:51 GMT -5
I have a complete collection of all the Beatles' solo albums, but I really must have been sleeping because I never picked up THE FIREMAN (the first album that is) and I didn't even know there was ever a SECOND one! Are these first 2 albums easy to obtain, or what?
There's this new one, ELECTRIC ARGUMENTS coming out -- right? When? Presently or soon-to-be-released? And I can just get it at Best Buy?
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 26, 2008 17:46:36 GMT -5
.....I bought it yesterday (9.98 at Target) and have had one listen without paying careful attention -- and it's impressive. Sing the Changes simply jumps out of the player. It's a glorious sounding CD so far. Jim, I was blown away by "Sing The Changes" and if I recall, that was the song(is that word even applicable with this exciting music?) Steve Marinucci was thrilled about in his review. JoeK, the first two fireman albums are out of print and Amazon is selling used ones for $70.00 each! You did not miss much although 1998's Rushes has some nice, thoughtful moments. See Jim's quote above as to his purchase price for the new one and I stand all humble and corrected as my local Wal-Mart did have this Tuesday for $9.00! I picked up two as I need to pay for the younger step-kid's college this year and the way those first two have appreciated in value..... Paul and Youth have nailed it on EA.
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Post by jimc on Nov 27, 2008 0:54:44 GMT -5
.....I bought it yesterday (9.98 at Target) and have had one listen without paying careful attention -- and it's impressive. Sing the Changes simply jumps out of the player. It's a glorious sounding CD so far. Jim, I was blown away by "Sing The Changes" and if I recall, that was the song(is that word even applicable with this exciting music?) Steve Marinucci was thrilled about in his review. JoeK, the first two fireman albums are out of print and Amazon is selling used ones for $70.00 each! You did not miss much although 1998's Rushes has some nice, thoughtful moments. See Jim's quote above as to his purchase price for the new one and I stand all humble and corrected as my local Wal-Mart did have this Tuesday for $9.00! I picked up two as I need to pay for the younger step-kid's college this year and the way those first two have appreciated in value..... Paul and Youth have nailed it on EA. John, I'm pretty sure that's the one Steve like the most as well. OK, I've three more full listens now -- had to drive to our regional championship game tonight (the 7th grade girls I coach won and we're one game from the state tournament) -- I deliberately drove on my own to listen to EA by myself (I'd also planned to put in the new David Byrne/Brian Eno disc, but I couldn't take EA out of the player. It's that good. To me, this is McCartney III -- except much, much better. It's relaxed yet edgy, confident and powerful. It's simply not much like the other Fireman CDs, which were ambient/dance/electronic sounds as you know. Like others, I'm confused about sending this out as Fireman disc (although the sticker on the plastic CLEARLY labels it a Macca CD). Then again, Paul always fancied performing under assumed names, as if he could reinvent himself and those around him. That's where John's Sgt. Pepper reference took me. I listen, and it's obvious that it's the same Paul who made Chaos and Memory, but again, this is much, much better. (And I really love those two discs). It's as if Paul, with the influence of Youth, didn't get bogged down with doing "certain kinds of tracks" and just let the creativity flow. The music, lyrics, vocal -- none if it feels forced on EA. I don't think we'll be talking about cringe-worthy couplets here. The best of his latest work is pulled, stretched, and set free on this disc. I remember Elvis Costello saying how surprised he was that Paul seemed compelled to follow certain songwriting rules or patterns when they worked together. Elvis said he told Paul, the Beatles taught everyone that you could break the rules, why don't you loosen up? Paul has loosened up and let his strengths determine the shape of the tracks on EA. Listening to this, I absolutely love the fact that I don't know what's coming next. And I don't mean track to track -- I'm talking about from moment to moment in most songs. Sorry I haven't referred to specific tracks. I'm still getting the overall feel of the record without looking at the booklet. This is a good one, folks.
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 27, 2008 1:26:04 GMT -5
OK, I've three more full listens now -- had to drive to our regional championship game tonight (the 7th grade girls I coach won and we're one game from the state tournament) -- I deliberately drove on my own to listen to EA by myself..... OT- congratulations Coach Jim. What sport? It seems too late in the school year for volleyball(at least varsity, yours would be middle school or Jr. High) but my goodness, it seems too early for your girls to be approaching State in basketball? I'd guess volleyball. You are a very progressive guy politically and socially, don't tell me that on the court you are a Bobby Knight! ;D
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Post by jimc on Nov 27, 2008 1:35:24 GMT -5
OK, I've three more full listens now -- had to drive to our regional championship game tonight (the 7th grade girls I coach won and we're one game from the state tournament) -- I deliberately drove on my own to listen to EA by myself..... OT- congratulations Coach Jim. What sport? It seems too late in the school year for volleyball(at least varsity, yours would be middle school or Jr. High) but my goodness, it seems too early for your girls to be approaching State in basketball? I'd guess volleyball. You are a very progressive guy politically and socially, don't tell me that on the court you are a Bobby Knight! ;D Basketball. Here in Illinois the junior girls' season begins in Sept. I'm proud to say that I've coached my son's boys' team to a third place state finish (and a 44-3 record over two years) and now I have a chance to join these girls at state. I'm a progressive, equal opportunity coach who has just happened to have been lucky enough to coach some extremely talented kids at our little Catholic school. Bobby Knight? I've never been that way with the players, but I've been an asshole to officials, I'm not proud to say. I need to relax and coach a little more in practice and stay calm on the sidelines during the games. Most of the time officials do not affect the outcome of the game. They usually equally good or bad toward both teams.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 27, 2008 6:55:54 GMT -5
The odd thing about these releases being so hard to get (especially the first 2 albums now) is that this is, after, all, Paul McCartney. So really, these are just three more McCartney solo albums released under a different name. And should ultimately be right there as easily to obtain from his catalogue as RAM, BAND ON THE RUN, or FLAMING PIE.
Since I like McCARTNEY II and I hear a lot of positive things about ELECTRIC ARGUMENTS, I'll try to get a hold of the new Fireman release soon.
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Post by Beatle Bob on Nov 27, 2008 11:59:17 GMT -5
I just picked it up last night at Best Buy for $9.99. Let me tell you on first impressions with McCartney solo albums, I find I need multiple listenings for his albums as they need to grow on me to appreciate. Right off the bat you hear this IS different, and draws you in almost immediately. You can sense how he's letting loose with no care of demographics or expectations. I sense a truer Paul than I ever have. Kudos to Paul! His late career resurgence is still peeking! Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by vectisfabber on Nov 27, 2008 20:27:50 GMT -5
Having listened to it once, it does nothing for me at all.
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Nov 27, 2008 23:17:34 GMT -5
Just a few points. I've been listening to EA for nearly a week now. I still don't think its a masterpiece, but would rate it at 4 stars, maybe 4 1/2. My favourite tracks are "Dance 'Til We're High" and "Highway." "Sing the Changes" and "Sun Is Shining" are not far behind. Both very good. Does anyone think that "Travelling Light" sounds something like Nick Cave? I do. Paul's voice has definitely deteriorated, IMO. Having said that, on most of EA's tracks he sounds acceptable to me. An exception is his singing on "Two Magpies." He really does sound like an old man on this. I have decided to skip this track and "Is This Love" when playing the disc in future. These are the only tracks on the album I dislike. I must say that I think that the ambient tracks that constitute the last third of the album are much superior to what was on the first two Fireman albums.
I can't see this album being a big seller down here unfortunately. I was in the city (downtown) today and could only see EA in three of about six music stores that I visited. No promotional material too be seen anywhere. No TV advertisements. I think Paul has produced some great work here and delivered what amounts to a first rate McCartney album less than a year and a half after the last one. I look forward to his next project.
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Post by ursamajor on Nov 28, 2008 1:00:02 GMT -5
I was listening this album with my other half and I ended up having an electric argument.
We were getting ready to go out and she went to the bathroom.It was the hairdryer vs the stereo. The stereo eventually one but I got the if looks could kill look.
It's not for everyone.
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