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Post by jimc on Feb 28, 2009 13:05:55 GMT -5
Why wouldn't they have used the entire take on Anthology? They would have edited it for space. I believe they did that with the "Helter Skelter" take and maybe one or two others, but that's a guess. But there was some editing done. Well, then it would have been pointless. The last half is essential. I'd bet editing was out of the question. Use it as is or not -- and they chose not to. Possibly also because of the Yoko element. |
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Post by joeyself on Feb 28, 2009 17:21:11 GMT -5
Bootleg wise? I'd be amazed. The well's been basically dry the last few years. Well, at least as far as new releases, yeah; I've wondered if there are some sitting on whatever they have due to the freebie nature of Internet file sharing. Such may have effected the black market as it has the mainstream releases. JcS |
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Post by Beatle Bob on Feb 28, 2009 20:19:48 GMT -5
I've been listening to this track for about a day and a half now ... I just got home from work, and here I am playing it over and over, again. What a CLASSIC Beatles track. I agree with what JimC said just above. Breathtaking ... a 2009 addition to true Fab music. I wonder if a batch of new material is around the corner ... dare we hope!? McCabe Bootleg wise? I'd be amazed. The well's been basically dry the last few years. Not quite! We've had the following in the last two years (and I'm probably leaving off a few items)that were new to bootleg: Sgt. Pepper Multi-Tracks Shea audio (raw inline-mono) Star Club Tapes (new songs, some expanded, with upgrades) Memphis '66 Maple Leaf Gardens '66 Two or 3 Lennon outtake sets from HMC (when the Shea set appeared two years ago) First appearance of REV #1 (Take 20)-shortened version and COME AND GET IT (Take #1) with Paul on guide vocals w/Badfinger backing on the Japanese "SESSIONS" LP Major upgrade of the Liverpool Empire Show '63 (premiered on youtube) These are some I know of off the top of my head. I'm sure someone can fill in what I've missed that have appeared in the last two years. The well is not dry. Just slow in refilling  Regards, Beatle Bob  |
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Post by mikev on Mar 1, 2009 7:59:26 GMT -5
I still wonder why there aren't more multi-track reels from the Get Back sessions once they were at Apple. Wouldn't almost everything be tracked? It seems like a lot of rough stuff was tracked based on Anthology, Get Back.
My point is that if this were the case-there was tons of stuff from Nagra that would be fantastic if it could be mixed properly, like later versions of All Things Must Pass with Billy Preston.
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Post by jimc on Mar 1, 2009 17:57:46 GMT -5
Steve, I was just reading some of the latest about Revolution I on the main page. Good call for another set of outtakes, etc. (maybe they should be just added to the regular releases), but why the unnecessary jab at McCartney about Carnival of Light?
Actually, I think there will be quite a buzz about that when it's released. It's something that hasn't been heard yet. The buzz might actually be greater than the current hoopla about Revolution.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Mar 1, 2009 21:16:12 GMT -5
Steve, I was just reading some of the latest about Revolution I on the main page. Good call for another set of outtakes, etc. (maybe they should be just added to the regular releases), but why the unnecessary jab at McCartney about Carnival of Light? Actually, I think there will be quite a buzz about that when it's released. It's something that hasn't been heard yet. The buzz might actually be greater than the current hoopla about Revolution. Jim: I explained my feelings about "Carnival" in an Examiner column that's here: www.examiner.com/x-2082-Beatles-Examiner~y2009m2d20-Carnival-of-DeLightBasically, I think it's much ado about nothing. The buzz may be great, but for what? It's hardly listenable, from the descriptions. I think the buzz is just to create a buzz and not really with any purpose. And there are so many other good things in the vaults, like "Revolution," that "Carnival" should be low on the list. Very low. |
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Mar 1, 2009 21:37:57 GMT -5
Basically, I think it's much ado about nothing. The buzz may be great, but for what? It's hardly listenable, from the descriptions. I think the buzz is just to create a buzz and not really with any purpose. And there are so many other good things in the vaults, like "Revolution," that "Carnival" should be low on the list. Very low. Don't you like to make up your own mind about things? Me, I'd love to hear something as spontaneous as C of Light evidently was -- put together by the greatest of bands! Then I decide whether it's cool for me! |
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Post by revolver66 on Mar 1, 2009 23:35:12 GMT -5
Basically, I think it's much ado about nothing. The buzz may be great, but for what? It's hardly listenable, from the descriptions. I think the buzz is just to create a buzz and not really with any purpose. And there are so many other good things in the vaults, like "Revolution," that "Carnival" should be low on the list. Very low. Don't you like to make up your own mind about things? Me, I'd love to hear something as spontaneous as C of Light evidently was -- put together by the greatest of bands! Then I decide whether it's cool for me! I agree. Put it out and let the fans decide. This New Revolution take is great and shows that there could be yet another Legal issue of Rare Beatles Vault material if Apple and the powers that be desire. I mean why not? It would sell well enough and the fans get New Beatles without paying too much as can happen with bootlegs. |
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Post by jimc on Mar 2, 2009 12:00:28 GMT -5
Steve, I was just reading some of the latest about Revolution I on the main page. Good call for another set of outtakes, etc. (maybe they should be just added to the regular releases), but why the unnecessary jab at McCartney about Carnival of Light? Actually, I think there will be quite a buzz about that when it's released. It's something that hasn't been heard yet. The buzz might actually be greater than the current hoopla about Revolution. Jim: I explained my feelings about "Carnival" in an Examiner column that's here: www.examiner.com/x-2082-Beatles-Examiner~y2009m2d20-Carnival-of-DeLightBasically, I think it's much ado about nothing. The buzz may be great, but for what? It's hardly listenable, from the descriptions. I think the buzz is just to create a buzz and not really with any purpose. And there are so many other good things in the vaults, like "Revolution," that "Carnival" should be low on the list. Very low. OK, I examined your column. You suggested that no one should want to hear it. I think that's ignorant. For the life of me I can't figure out why a Beatle fan wouldn't want to. And descriptions? I think all we have is Lewisohn's, and I don't think that he says anything about the track being "hardly listenable." I've always been intrigued by his description -- especially that it is frightening. Let's hear the track, then decide about it. And remember it was simply created for a soundtrack of sorts. It's not Hey Jude or a Day in the Life. I have a feeling that with all that's happened musically since 1967, we might find this experiment very interesting. But I would at least like to hear it before judging it. And that still doesn't explain taking a jab at McCartney over it. |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 2, 2009 16:19:22 GMT -5
I finally got to hear Revoluition 1, Take 20 ... it is presently on YouTube in 2 parts.
I wasn't aware that the outtake vocal was the same take as the released version... I usually don't get all that interested in an outtake unless it's some alternate vocal. However, I DID enjoy TAKE 20 overall, though I'm wondering how much of that was due to the fact that it's just so much more clear, and John's vocal is just so much more distinct and up front? It sounded GREAT, audio-wise. I also didn't mind the absence of some of the instruments we're used to hearing from the White Album version... I liked whatever that sound was that kept coming (sort of like a "siren" after every verse or so, whatever it is).
As far as the "mama dada" stuff, it sounds neat... but I'm not one who often likes a song that degenerates into endless jamming and insanity. It's nice for awhile, but IMO TAKE 20 kind of gets lost after a bit (I think someone said "lost in space," which I'd agree with).
AND YET -- if I had to choose between having either TAKE 20 or Revolution 1 and 9 as released ... I'm becoming partial to TAKE 20. I think it was Sayne who suggested that people would have skipped the entire track like they already do with REVOLUTION 9 if the song had been released this way, but I don't think so. The first half of TAKE 20 -- the "proper song portion" -- is cool enough that I think people would want to hear it. They might have skipped to the next track once the meandering begins midway, though.
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Post by mikev on Mar 2, 2009 17:10:09 GMT -5
Another possibility would have been to insert the single version as "1" and later the take 20 version.
Or maybe it should have been a TRIPLE album, with Hey Jude, Lady Madonna, Across the Universe, all three versions of Revolution, Not Guilty and a few more goodies. Wonder how well THAT would have sold???
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Post by beatleroadie on Mar 2, 2009 18:01:57 GMT -5
Not to change course on this thread, but someone above mentioned Carnival of Light...
So, pardon me if this has been covered before, but how (if at all) would everyone like to see CoL released?
Personally, I think it's as simple as including it as a bonus track on the remasters CDs. It should be included with Sgt. Peppers based on when it was recorded, but since that's such a popular, self-contained record and will sell ridiculous amounts anyway, Apple would probably stick it on the end of Magical Mystery Tour, where it kind of makes sense since MMT is a short record and the second half is a grab bag anyway, or possibly even on Past Masters Vol 2, but I think placing it between "Rain" and "Lady Madonna" would ruin the flow of that chronological, singles-oriented track listing.
So my vote is to place it as the last track on the re-issued MMT, right after "All You Need is Love".
For iTunes, it could simply be given away as an "album only" bonus track when you buy the whole thing.
The important thing is to not make a big deal about it, but just quietly include it as a bonus track and focus the whole remasters push on the vastly improved sound of all the familiar songs.
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Post by jimc on Mar 2, 2009 18:28:13 GMT -5
Not to change course on this thread, but someone above mentioned Carnival of Light... So, pardon me if this has been covered before, but how (if at all) would everyone like to see CoL released? Personally, I think it's as simple as including it as a bonus track on the remasters CDs. It should be included with Sgt. Peppers based on when it was recorded, but since that's such a popular, self-contained record and will sell ridiculous amounts anyway, Apple would probably stick it on the end of Magical Mystery Tour, where it kind of makes sense since MMT is a short record and the second half is a grab bag anyway, or possibly even on Past Masters Vol 2, but I think placing it between "Rain" and "Lady Madonna" would ruin the flow of that chronological, singles-oriented track listing. So my vote is to place it as the last track on the re-issued MMT, right after "All You Need is Love". For iTunes, it could simply be given away as an "album only" bonus track when you buy the whole thing. The important thing is to not make a big deal about it, but just quietly include it as a bonus track and focus the whole remasters push on the vastly improved sound of all the familiar songs. Yes, I agree the best place for it would be with Sgt. Pepper or MMT. I think it would be perfect as part of the bonus package for either disc. That way, no one would get too bent out of shape about its release -- and we could finally hear the damn thing. As for being free on iTunes -- are you kidding me? I'm guessing we'll pay out the nose for any of these releases. And if it's anything like George's iTunes releases -- Carnival of Light and other tracks will only be available to those who purchase the entire album. I hope that's not the case, but... |
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Mar 2, 2009 18:32:52 GMT -5
Basically, I think it's much ado about nothing. The buzz may be great, but for what? It's hardly listenable, from the descriptions. I think the buzz is just to create a buzz and not really with any purpose. And there are so many other good things in the vaults, like "Revolution," that "Carnival" should be low on the list. Very low. Don't you like to make up your own mind about things? Me, I'd love to hear something as spontaneous as C of Light evidently was -- put together by the greatest of bands! Then I decide whether it's cool for me! From the description, I don't think it'll surprise me. I'm not saying I wouldn't take a listen. I'm just not expecting very much. |
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Mar 2, 2009 18:36:44 GMT -5
Jim: I explained my feelings about "Carnival" in an Examiner column that's here: www.examiner.com/x-2082-Beatles-Examiner~y2009m2d20-Carnival-of-DeLightBasically, I think it's much ado about nothing. The buzz may be great, but for what? It's hardly listenable, from the descriptions. I think the buzz is just to create a buzz and not really with any purpose. And there are so many other good things in the vaults, like "Revolution," that "Carnival" should be low on the list. Very low. OK, I examined your column. You suggested that no one should want to hear it. I think that's ignorant. For the life of me I can't figure out why a Beatle fan wouldn't want to. And descriptions? I think all we have is Lewisohn's, and I don't think that he says anything about the track being "hardly listenable." I've always been intrigued by his description -- especially that it is frightening. Let's hear the track, then decide about it. And remember it was simply created for a soundtrack of sorts. It's not Hey Jude or a Day in the Life. I have a feeling that with all that's happened musically since 1967, we might find this experiment very interesting. But I would at least like to hear it before judging it. And that still doesn't explain taking a jab at McCartney over it. As I just said, given the description, I think there will be a huge disappointment when it is heard. And with all the buildup it's getting, people are expecting God knows what. I think "Revolution" is a lot more exciting than "Carnival" will ever be. Will I boycott hearing it? No I'm just expecting a lot from it. And I'm not about to build it up to be disappointed. |
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Post by beatleroadie on Mar 2, 2009 22:41:54 GMT -5
No way there will be a huge disappointment with CoL because I don't think there is a huge build up about it...among the general music-going populace, at least, or even the casual Beatles fan for that matter. Remember, most people who post on Beatles boards are in a kind of bubble and sometimes we forget that other fans don't keep up with this stuff like we do.
There are tons of Beatles fans out there who own the 1 album, and maybe one or two others like Sgt. Pepper and Abbey Road, and that's it. Lots of people don't even realize the Beatles catalogue needs remastering or that the remasters are coming "soon." Most people haven't even sought out the Anthologies, so I wouldn't worry about them being too "let down" by Carnival of Light because most won't be interested in it in the first place. Know what I mean?
CoL coming out as a bonus track on the CD or "album only" track on iTunes is perfect because the casual fans who wouldn't like it anyway can ignore it, and the more intense fans can buy it to geek out for a few weeks, cherish the historical value of the recording and then pull it out to play every now and then...
Either that or Apple just gives it to Michel Gondry to use as the soundtrack for a surreal 15-minute Beatles-inspired film that will win a Grammy for best long-format video and an Oscar for Best Short Film. Ha!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2009 4:28:40 GMT -5
I'd like to see Carnival of Light released on the back of a drink coaster....
That way it's a win win , depending on "YOUR" choice.......
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Post by vectisfabber on Mar 3, 2009 5:17:43 GMT -5
I think that as/when it approaches some form of release the press will whip it up like mad, and the final assessment will be a massive anticlimax, among not only fans but also the more recent non-fan musical cognoscenti. Yes I want to hear it, but I'm not expecting anthing that's going to appeal to me any more than Rev 9.
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Post by superhans on Mar 3, 2009 5:53:24 GMT -5
The best release format for 'Carnival' would presumably now be on a bonus disc for the re-mastered 'Pepper'. Really, it should have been on 'Anthology II', of course. The Beatles seemed to shy away from putting long tracks on 'Anthology', presumably through fear of alienating the casual listener. Hence, we were deprived the delights of all three hours of 'Helter Skelter', the six-day fade-out of Revolution 1 - take 20, and the near eternity of 'Carnival of light'. Despite their length, they should have been on there.  |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 3, 2009 6:13:25 GMT -5
The best release format for 'Carnival' would presumably now be on a bonus disc for the re-mastered 'Pepper'. Really, it should have been on 'Anthology II', of course. Judging from how horrible CARNIVAL is said to be (and I have no reason to doubt that, even though I would have to listen for myself) I would not want the PEPPER album to be tarnished by it being included as an extra track. There are always other Beatles rarities and outtakes which could appear on any numerous new "SESSIONS" releases, or ANTHOLOGY-type releases. We could have CARNIVAL OF LIGHT, REVOLUTION 1 TAKE 20, or any number of other sessions in the vault on such a compilation. |
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Post by superhans on Mar 3, 2009 7:00:13 GMT -5
Judging from how horrible CARNIVAL is said to be (and I have no reason to doubt that, even though I would have to listen for myself) I would not want the PEPPER album to be tarnished by it being included as an extra track. I don't see why Carnival's inclusion on an entirely separate bonus disc would 'tarnish' the album itself -- it's surely standard practice to put 'odds and sods', of particular interest to fans, on bonus discs. I would rather have that - if only for interest value - than another clutch of half-finished, work-in-progress takes, as appeared on Anthology II. |
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Post by mikev on Mar 3, 2009 9:09:15 GMT -5
There's enough listenable ,material still out there-include acetates, including the rarer Peter and Gordon cuts, the rest of Kinfauns, the rest of Decca, BBC material, more live 63-64, more Get Back material, etc. Throw the Col, Rev 20 in as well.
Apple could just enhance the Anthology series when it finally goes digital-as there are no limits as is with a CD package.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Mar 3, 2009 10:42:55 GMT -5
No way there will be a huge disappointment with CoL because I don't think there is a huge build up about it...among the general music-going populace, at least, or even the casual Beatles fan for that matter. Remember, most people who post on Beatles boards are in a kind of bubble and sometimes we forget that other fans don't keep up with this stuff like we do. Up until "Revolution" popped out, "Carnival" had been a constant discussion point. It's only gone away because people have something else to discuss now. |
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Mar 3, 2009 10:43:40 GMT -5
There's enough listenable ,material still out there-include acetates, including the rarer Peter and Gordon cuts, the rest of Kinfauns, the rest of Decca, BBC material, more live 63-64, more Get Back material, etc. Throw the Col, Rev 20 in as well. Apple could just enhance the Anthology series when it finally goes digital-as there are no limits as is with a CD package. Peter and Gordon? |
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Post by jimc on Mar 3, 2009 12:42:46 GMT -5
There's enough listenable ,material still out there-include acetates, including the rarer Peter and Gordon cuts, the rest of Kinfauns, the rest of Decca, BBC material, more live 63-64, more Get Back material, etc. Throw the Col, Rev 20 in as well. Apple could just enhance the Anthology series when it finally goes digital-as there are no limits as is with a CD package. Peter and Gordon? He's probably refering to possible demos made for Peter and Gordon, or significant session work such as a guide vocal or something? (Jim: I think you put your answer in the wrong spot, so I modified it. If I'm wrong, say so and I'll put the post back the way it was. -- steve) |
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Post by jimc on Mar 3, 2009 12:46:11 GMT -5
The best release format for 'Carnival' would presumably now be on a bonus disc for the re-mastered 'Pepper'. Really, it should have been on 'Anthology II', of course. Judging from how horrible CARNIVAL is said to be (and I have no reason to doubt that, even though I would have to listen for myself) I would not want the PEPPER album to be tarnished by it being included as an extra track. There are always other Beatles rarities and outtakes which could appear on any numerous new "SESSIONS" releases, or ANTHOLOGY-type releases. We could have CARNIVAL OF LIGHT, REVOLUTION 1 TAKE 20, or any number of other sessions in the vault on such a compilation. Again just to keep the facts straight about a track we haven't heard, where is "horrible" used by Mark Lewisohn when he talks about this track? As far as I know, that is the only report we can count on at the moment. One might judge it as "horrible" after it's released, but that assumption can't be made unless we've heard it or it has at least been described as that. |
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 3, 2009 13:02:07 GMT -5
Not to change course on this thread, but someone above mentioned Carnival of Light... So, pardon me if this has been covered before, but how (if at all) would everyone like to see CoL released? Personally, I think it's as simple as including it as a bonus track on the remasters CDs. It should be included with Sgt. Peppers based on when it was recorded, but since that's such a popular, self-contained record and will sell ridiculous amounts anyway, Apple would probably stick it on the end of Magical Mystery Tour, where it kind of makes sense since MMT is a short record and the second half is a grab bag anyway, or possibly even on Past Masters Vol 2, but I think placing it between "Rain" and "Lady Madonna" would ruin the flow of that chronological, singles-oriented track listing. So my vote is to place it as the last track on the re-issued MMT, right after "All You Need is Love". For iTunes, it could simply be given away as an "album only" bonus track when you buy the whole thing. The important thing is to not make a big deal about it, but just quietly include it as a bonus track and focus the whole remasters push on the vastly improved sound of all the familiar songs. I agree. Release COL as a bonus track to a deluxe Sgt. Pepper boxset on Disc 2 with the other bonus material. Let it out but release it with a ton of other new material so the spotlight isn't solely on it. |
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Post by superhans on Mar 3, 2009 13:11:40 GMT -5
I agree. Release COL as a bonus track to a deluxe Sgt. Pepper boxset on Disc 2 with the other bonus material. Let it out but release it with a ton of other new material so the spotlight isn't solely on it. Good call, JSD! Does the fact that Macca is openly saying that Carnival's time may have nearly come -- and that the 'Pepper' re-master is the obvious place for it -- mean that there is already a plan afoot along those lines?? Is something stirring in the nether regions of Apple, perchance? |
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Mar 3, 2009 15:10:03 GMT -5
I agree. Release COL as a bonus track to a deluxe Sgt. Pepper boxset on Disc 2 with the other bonus material. Let it out but release it with a ton of other new material so the spotlight isn't solely on it. Good call, JSD! Does the fact that Macca is openly saying that Carnival's time may have nearly come -- and that the 'Pepper' re-master is the obvious place for it -- mean that there is already a plan afoot along those lines?? Is something stirring in the nether regions of Apple, perchance? Nothing shakin' but the leaves on the trees. |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 3, 2009 15:57:33 GMT -5
I don't see why Carnival's inclusion on an entirely separate bonus disc would 'tarnish' the album itself -- it's surely standard practice to put 'odds and sods', of particular interest to fans, on bonus discs. I would rather have that - if only for interest value - than another clutch of half-finished, work-in-progress takes, as appeared on Anthology II. I'll agree with you that it wouldn't tarnish Pepper if CARNIVAL OF LIGHT was issued on a separate disc along with other material (whatever it would be, I have no idea). But I wouldn't want it included on the same disc as the proper SGT PEPPER album. But I have to disagree in that I would much rather have more outtakes, especially of the earlier Beatles. Stuff like I'M DOWN, YOU'VE GOT TO HIDE YOUR LOVE AWAY, I'LL BE BACK, IT'S ONLY LOVE .... I just ate that stuff up. |
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