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Post by sayne on Mar 20, 2012 21:09:02 GMT -5
I don't believe for a second that Yoko did not know the Beatles, John, or Paul. She may have been of Japanese, but she'd been around (don't get cheeky). She spoke English, was well-read, and attended Sarah Lawrence. She was older than teens, but she certainly wasn't of an entirely different generation.
I'm not saying she must have been a fan, but I doubt, despite what she or others might say, that she was ignorant of the Beatles. In order for that to happen, she would have had to never read papers, magazines, watch TV, or listen to the radio. Think about today. What do you think is the likelihood of there being many, if any, 30 year olds (Yoko's age in the mid-60s) living in the United States with absolutely no knowledge of Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, Rhianna, Eminem, etc?
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 20, 2012 21:27:41 GMT -5
I don't believe for a second that Yoko did not know the Beatles, John, or Paul. She may have been of Japanese, but she'd been around (don't get cheeky). She spoke English, was well-read, and attended Sarah Lawrence. She was older than teens, but she certainly wasn't of an entirely different generation. I'm not saying she must have been a fan, but I doubt, despite what she or others might say, that she was ignorant of the Beatles. In order for that to happen, she would have had to never read papers, magazines, watch TV, or listen to the radio. Think about today. What do you think is the likelihood of there being many, if any, 30 year olds (Yoko's age in the mid-60s) living in the United States with absolutely no knowledge of Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, Rhianna, Eminem, etc? Well, Yoko was more like 35. But I've explained this a zillion times already. I'll bet Yoko had heard the name "Beatles" before. Maybe even heard their names individually. However, it's still feasible that she could not readily identify all of them by name or instantly spot John, especially depending on how he was made up that day. In New York, for example, celebrities walk around all the time and aren't always readily spotted. I think people take the "Yoko didn't know The Beatles" too literally. Plus, I don't think it was "The Beatles" she and John were claiming she didn't know here, was it? John said "she didn't know who the hell I was, she was living in a different environment". I can believe it to enough of an extent.
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Post by ursamajor on Mar 20, 2012 22:38:11 GMT -5
I don't believe for a second that Yoko did not know the Beatles, John, or Paul. She may have been of Japanese, but she'd been around (don't get cheeky). She spoke English, was well-read, and attended Sarah Lawrence. She was older than teens, but she certainly wasn't of an entirely different generation. I'm not saying she must have been a fan, but I doubt, despite what she or others might say, that she was ignorant of the Beatles. In order for that to happen, she would have had to never read papers, magazines, watch TV, or listen to the radio. Think about today. What do you think is the likelihood of there being many, if any, 30 year olds (Yoko's age in the mid-60s) living in the United States with absolutely no knowledge of Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, Rhianna, Eminem, etc? Well, Yoko was more like 35. But I've explained this a zillion times already. I'll bet Yoko had heard the name "Beatles" before. Maybe even heard their names individually. However, it's still feasible that she could not readily identify all of them by name or instantly spot John, especially depending on how he was made up that day. In New York, for example, celebrities walk around all the time and aren't always readily spotted. I think people take the "Yoko didn't know The Beatles" too literally. Plus, I don't think it was "The Beatles" she and John were claiming she didn't know here, was it? John said "she didn't know who the hell I was, she was living in a different environment". I can believe it to enough of an extent. Joe you have to remember no matter where Yoko was, London or Tokyo by 1966 The Beatles had gone to Japan as well where they broke attendance records, there would be no escaping for any artist claiming not to know them. Don't you agree that it is abit strange to make that claim ? I wonder if they say that to make their "falling in love" sound more natural.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2012 0:10:28 GMT -5
Joe you have to remember no matter where Yoko was, London or Tokyo by 1966 The Beatles had gone to Japan as well where they broke attendance records, there would be no escaping for any artist claiming not to know them. Don't you agree that it is abit strange to make that claim ? I wonder if they say that to make their "falling in love" sound more natural. What claim, specifically? Where did Yoko say "I never heard of The Beatles"? (Or where did John say that?) To the best of my knowledge, that's not what she or John said. I just explained how Yoko may not have made the immediate connection once this guy went into the gallery. It didn't mean "Yoko never heard the name 'Beatles' "... It's one thing not to have ever heard of "The Beatles" .. it is not so far-fetched for a Japanese artist who doesn't know the first thing about rock music to not recognize a member of a band with glasses walking into the gallery. But I just suggested this difference .... do people read?
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Post by ursamajor on Mar 21, 2012 0:46:50 GMT -5
Joe you have to remember no matter where Yoko was, London or Tokyo by 1966 The Beatles had gone to Japan as well where they broke attendance records, there would be no escaping for any artist claiming not to know them. Don't you agree that it is abit strange to make that claim ? I wonder if they say that to make their "falling in love" sound more natural. What claim, specifically? Where did Yoko say "I never heard of The Beatles"? (Or where did John say that?) To the best of my knowledge, that's not what she or John said. I just explained how Yoko may not have made the immediate connection once this guy went into the gallery. It didn't mean "Yoko never heard the name 'Beatles' "... It's one thing not to have ever heard of "The Beatles" .. it is not so far-fetched for a Japanese artist who doesn't know the first thing about rock music to not recognize a member of a band with glasses walking into the gallery. But I just suggested this difference .... do people read? Hey Joe, take a chill pill, yes I do read , we all read , all the Beatles read but it is also not far fetched that John and Yoko romanticise that moment to be more than what it actually was as they did not get together until many months later (18 in fact) and Yoko pursued him relentlessly until she got him. In John's last interview he repeats this but leaves out that there was an 18 month gap until something actually happened and that Yoko did alot of silly stunts, basically stalking him. To suggest that she knew who the Beatles were but not any of the members is very far fetched , IMO given the Beatles were in London and had been to Tokyo, so it's impossible for a so called artist to not know or not have heard of them. Anyway you slice it they're both talking alot of porky pies.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2012 6:21:15 GMT -5
Hey Joe, take a chill pill, yes I do read , we all read , all the Beatles read but it is also not far fetched that John and Yoko romanticise that moment to be more than what it actually was as they did not get together until many months later (18 in fact) and Yoko pursued him relentlessly until she got him. In John's last interview he repeats this but leaves out that there was an 18 month gap until something actually happened and that Yoko did alot of silly stunts, basically stalking him. I have said before that there have been plenty of women who pursue a man, and certainly women who've pursued FAMOUS men. My point again... as always .... is why does everyone single out Yoko Ono? THAT is the part that's not fair. And I believe it's primarily because Yoko was rather "weird and unconventional". If you're going to single one out, be fair... Let's talk about what a groupie Linda the rock photographer was, and how she hung around the stars. How she really preferred John, but settled for Paul instead when Paul showed interest in her. I would bet my life that Linda would have shacked up with George or Ringo instead, had either of them asked her out before Paul. How about Olivia Harrison? Wasn't she initially George's secretary or something? Was there some true love there, or was Olivia happy to snag an ex-Beatle? What about Patti Boyd eagerly hooking up with George The Beatle Sensation on the set of A HARD DAY'S NIGHT...? I don't think it is far-fetched at all when it comes to not being able to recite all members' names of any group, including The Beatles.
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Post by ursamajor on Mar 21, 2012 8:23:32 GMT -5
Hey Joe, take a chill pill, yes I do read , we all read , all the Beatles read but it is also not far fetched that John and Yoko romanticise that moment to be more than what it actually was as they did not get together until many months later (18 in fact) and Yoko pursued him relentlessly until she got him. In John's last interview he repeats this but leaves out that there was an 18 month gap until something actually happened and that Yoko did alot of silly stunts, basically stalking him. I have said before that there have been plenty of women who pursue a man, and certainly women who've pursued FAMOUS men. My point again... as always .... is why does everyone single out Yoko Ono? THAT is the part that's not fair. And I believe it's primarily because Yoko was rather "weird and unconventional". If you're going to single one out, be fair... Let's talk about what a groupie Linda the rock photographer was, and how she hung around the stars. How she really preferred John, but settled for Paul instead when Paul showed interest in her. I would bet my life that Linda would have shacked up with George or Ringo instead, had either of them asked her out before Paul. How about Olivia Harrison? Wasn't she initially George's secretary or something? Was there some true love there, or was Olivia happy to snag an ex-Beatle? What about Patti Boyd eagerly hooking up with George The Beatle Sensation on the set of A HARD DAY'S NIGHT...? I don't think it is far-fetched at all when it comes to not being able to recite all members' names of any group, including The Beatles. Ok we'll agree to disagree on this one , if she didn't know who the Beatles were or who John Lennon was at that time then spent too much time living in a bag. But luckily for her she did chase him because he was her soulmate and they made each other happy. With Linda and Olivia, I agree with you absolutely valid points but Linda and Olivia didn't say they didn't know who Paul, George or the Beatles were when they met them and make out like it was some kind of fairytale romance and voila they're actually marrying a prince. That's the bone I'm picking with John and Yoko's comments.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2012 8:38:46 GMT -5
Ok we'll agree to disagree on this one , if she didn't know who the Beatles were or who John Lennon was at that time then spent too much time living in a bag. Yoko DID often get into a bag - literally! ;D So the moral of the story is: sometimes you gotta try. And if it all ended up well, who gives a crap? Well there are two issues here... one is that JohnandYoko allegedly exaggerated how they met. Though every time they talk about that "hammer a nail" story in the gallery, they always seem sincere that there was a connection there and they instantly clicked. This part seems true even if it took time for them to get together after that. The second issue people have is that "Yoko just wanted to snag John just cuz he was a Beatle". And to that objection I say "Patooey.... then go and chastize Linda Eastman, Patti Boyd, and Olivia Harrison".
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 21, 2012 9:09:44 GMT -5
If you're going to single one out, be fair... Let's talk about what a groupie Linda the rock photographer was, and how she hung around the stars. How she really preferred John, but settled for Paul instead when Paul showed interest in her. I would bet my life that Linda would have shacked up with George or Ringo instead, had either of them asked her out before Paul. I know you liked Linda, Joe, from your own experiences with her and I have come to like her influence and vocals(if not her actual keyboard playing) on Paul's early music of the Postulate Era but it is the sad fact that Linda shipped little Heather off with friends or family to pursue Paul. That is something that got whitewashed out of Paul & Linda's story but not by some of Linda's old acquaintances. I can't ever reconcile that with the mother Linda became. That was not the Linda of Mary, Stella and James. Linda grew up but still her chase of the most eligible Rock Star in the world was fierce, to the point of pawning her oldest daughter off for extended periods of time. The sad thing is Paul and Linda played up the "Yoko came to Paul first" story to suggest Yoko was just interested in bagging a Beatle. Of all people they should have understood Yoko's situation or at least kept quiet because Linda did the same! Yoko has expressed an understanding of what Linda went through as a Beatle wife but it seems Linda always felt she was different than Yoko and that was sad.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2012 9:25:06 GMT -5
I know you liked Linda, Joe, from your own experiences with her and I have come to like her influence and vocals(if not her actual keyboard playing) on Paul's early music of the Postulate Era but it is the sad fact that Linda shipped little Heather off with friends or family to pursue Paul. That is something that got whitewashed out of Paul & Linda's story but not by some of Linda's old acquaintances. I can't ever reconcile that with the mother Linda became. That was not the Linda of Mary, Stella and James. Linda grew up but still her chase of the most eligible Rock Star in the world was fierce, to the point of pawning her oldest daughter off for extended periods of time. The sad thing is Paul and Linda played up the "Yoko came to Paul first" story to suggest Yoko was just interested in bagging a Beatle. Of all people they should have understood Yoko's situation or at least kept quiet because Linda did the same! Yoko has expressed an understanding of what Linda went through as a Beatle wife but it seems Linda always felt she was different than Yoko and that was sad. Very interesting, JSD. I didn't even know that much. Just want to add here that I have NO problem with Linda, Patti, or Olivia, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to make a point. In the world of "Beatle Women", only Heathen I consider to be truly evil (I know you and I don't agree on that)... and I think that May Pang tends to overstay her welcome and overplay her role in John's life.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 21, 2012 11:31:12 GMT -5
In the world of "Beatle Women", only Heathen I consider to be truly evil (I know you and I don't agree on that)... and I think that May Pang tends to overstay her welcome and overplay her role in John's life. Oh Joe, I thought of you when Steve reported that May Pang is on the newest Quarrymen record! She reprises her role from "Number 9 Dream" by whispering "No. 6" on a song of theirs called "No. 6!" I mostly like May Pang, glad that we can finally see many of those cool photos she took or owned, but even I think that she now thinks that she is the "star." She was a mistress who John obviously cared for but who could never take Yoko's place as the most important person in his life. Here's Steve's article if you haven't already read it(with a picture to boot of Pete Best and Colin Hanton!): www.examiner.com/beatles-in-national/new-quarrymen-song-featuring-may-pang-to-debut-sunday
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Post by zemargla on Mar 21, 2012 14:00:20 GMT -5
If you're going to single one out, be fair... Let's talk about what a groupie Linda the rock photographer was, and how she hung around the stars. How she really preferred John, but settled for Paul instead when Paul showed interest in her. I would bet my life that Linda would have shacked up with George or Ringo instead, had either of them asked her out before Paul. I know you liked Linda, Joe, from your own experiences with her and I have come to like her influence and vocals(if not her actual keyboard playing) on Paul's early music of the Postulate Era but it is the sad fact that Linda shipped little Heather off with friends or family to pursue Paul. That is something that got whitewashed out of Paul & Linda's story but not by some of Linda's old acquaintances. I can't ever reconcile that with the mother Linda became. That was not the Linda of Mary, Stella and James. Linda grew up but still her chase of the most eligible Rock Star in the world was fierce, to the point of pawning her oldest daughter off for extended periods of time. The sad thing is Paul and Linda played up the "Yoko came to Paul first" story to suggest Yoko was just interested in bagging a Beatle. Of all people they should have understood Yoko's situation or at least kept quiet because Linda did the same! Yoko has expressed an understanding of what Linda went through as a Beatle wife but it seems Linda always felt she was different than Yoko and that was sad. Sorry, a mother doesn't have to be with her child 24 hours every day. It's good for a child to be with friends and relatives occasionally. Linda was in London for a profession. OK she loved rock music and rock musicians. These were the Sixties. Free love. Free spirit. Paul and Linda both had sowed their wild oats and were ready for family life and be faithful. They did right.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 21, 2012 17:03:49 GMT -5
I know you liked Linda, Joe, from your own experiences with her and I have come to like her influence and vocals(if not her actual keyboard playing) on Paul's early music of the Postulate Era but it is the sad fact that Linda shipped little Heather off with friends or family to pursue Paul. That is something that got whitewashed out of Paul & Linda's story but not by some of Linda's old acquaintances. I can't ever reconcile that with the mother Linda became. That was not the Linda of Mary, Stella and James. Linda grew up but still her chase of the most eligible Rock Star in the world was fierce, to the point of pawning her oldest daughter off for extended periods of time. The sad thing is Paul and Linda played up the "Yoko came to Paul first" story to suggest Yoko was just interested in bagging a Beatle. Of all people they should have understood Yoko's situation or at least kept quiet because Linda did the same! Yoko has expressed an understanding of what Linda went through as a Beatle wife but it seems Linda always felt she was different than Yoko and that was sad. Sorry, a mother doesn't have to be with her child 24 hours every day. It's good for a child to be with friends and relatives occasionally. Linda was in London for a profession. OK she loved rock music and rock musicians. These were the Sixties. Free love. Free spirit. Paul and Linda both had sowed their wild oats and were ready for family life and be faithful. They did right. I totally agree that Linda became a very good mother. I noted that as to Mary, Stella and James and even Heather once Linda settled down with Paul. Paul loved the kids, that's clear, although I suspect Linda was the primary caregiver. But I still question leaving Heather with whoever to go over to London to snag a Beatle. I didn't even mention the times she's purported to have left Heather with the guys who had just slept over and its been written that Heather had babysitters among the cream of 1960's Rock and Roll! I wouldn't want Brian Jones, Jim Morrison or Jimi Hendrix watching my four year old daughter, just as examples! ;D
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Post by ursamajor on Mar 21, 2012 19:05:51 GMT -5
Ok we'll agree to disagree on this one , if she didn't know who the Beatles were or who John Lennon was at that time then spent too much time living in a bag. Yoko DID often get into a bag - literally! ;D So the moral of the story is: sometimes you gotta try. And if it all ended up well, who gives a crap? Well there are two issues here... one is that JohnandYoko allegedly exaggerated how they met. Though every time they talk about that "hammer a nail" story in the gallery, they always seem sincere that there was a connection there and they instantly clicked. This part seems true even if it took time for them to get together after that. The second issue people have is that "Yoko just wanted to snag John just cuz he was a Beatle". And to that objection I say "Patooey.... then go and chastize Linda Eastman, Patti Boyd, and Olivia Harrison". Yes Issue#1 I can understand that from the way John looked that day she may not have recognised him but when he was introduced as John Lennon she surely would have known who he was. If they said that then fine, no problem but they made out like Yoko didn't even know who John Lennon was. Issue#2 I have no problem with it. Other people may link Issue#1 with Issue#2 though and claim she was just after a rich, famous (guy)Beatle but I don't see it that way, I do think they were meant for each other and more to the point , I think John found what he wanted with Yoko.
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