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Post by joeyself on Jan 10, 2011 8:19:48 GMT -5
BACK TO THE EGG, Side 2 vs. IMAGINE, Side 2
BACK TO THE EGG, Side 2
1. Rockestra Theme (2:35)
2. To You (3:12)
3. After The Ball / Million Miles (4:00)
4. Winter Rose / Love Awake (4:57)
5. The Broadcast (1:29)
6. So Glad To See You Here (4:20)
7. Baby's Request (2:49)
IMAGINE, Side 2
1. "Gimme Some Truth" 3:16
2. "Oh My Love" 2:44
3. "How Do You Sleep?" 5:36
4. "How?" 3:43
5. "Oh Yoko!" 4:20
Both of these had easy passage to this round; BTTE 2 beat WW 2 by 20-1, while IMA 2 had the assignment of dispatching SJ 1, and did so by a 16-1 count.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jan 10, 2011 9:54:08 GMT -5
IMAGINE, Side 2
This was easy for me. I really love I-2. Every song is very good.
On BTTE-2, I really like "To You" and the lovely, haunting "Winter Rose / Love Awake." The rest is pleasant enough.
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Post by coachbk on Jan 10, 2011 12:17:48 GMT -5
At some point the inclusion of the pathetic and childish "How Do You Sleep" is going to cause me to vote against IMAGINE side 2.
This matchup, however is not the one.
I like "Gimme Some Truth", "Oh My Love" and "Oh Yoko" more than any of the BTTE songs and "How" is also pretty good.
I do enjoy BTTE. A nice combination of rockers and ballads. My favorites are the two Rockestra songs, "Winter Rose/Love Awake" and "Baby's Request", but I like the previously mentioned trio of Lennon songs more.
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JCV
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Post by JCV on Jan 10, 2011 12:49:39 GMT -5
IMAGINE, Side 2Really no contest for me. JCV 
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Post by theman on Jan 10, 2011 13:48:56 GMT -5
This one is "eggs over easy" for me.
I love the flow of Back to the Egg (especially the, almost, bookended tunes from The Rockestra). For me, there is not a weak track on BTTE, Side 2. I also think it was simple to criticize this album at the time for trying to be too trendy and new wave-ish. Obviously, songs like ""After the Ball", "Winter Rose", "Love Awake" and "Baby's Request" were not trying to capitalize on what was trendy at the time. All very well done songs that were, again, nicely complimented by the rockers.
Meanwhile, Imagine, Side 2 is less compelling to me. It's not bad, as "Gimme Some Truth" and "Oh My Love" are standout tracks. The infamous "How Do You Sleep" hurts this side for me, as does the way too quiet "How" and the goofy "Oh Yoko" (which John improved upon years later with "Dear Yoko").
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Post by John S. Damm on Jan 10, 2011 15:54:05 GMT -5
I am detecting much anger at "How Do You Sleep?" I think that it is a very good song with some logical flaws in the lyrics(like accusing Paul of doing whatever his woman said, a fair charge leveled at John too) but nonetheless brilliant.
Paul is a tough man, he could handle it. Paul can give as good as he takes so no need to feel sorry for him.
I think that HDYS shows the love John had for Paul because that type of sentiment is only written when one is angry at another he/she greatly loved or respected but now feels let down or rejected by.
John would not have written such resentment and anger about a Cynthia, the car-driver, the Maharishi("Sexy Sadie" is tame by comparison).
We hurt the ones we love and John felt hurt by Paul, a man John had loved for a long time. John's passion in HDYS masks his love of Paul. If Paul was a nobody to John, John wouldn't have bothered.
I like to look at it like that. A love song in drag!
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diego
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Post by diego on Jan 10, 2011 16:11:43 GMT -5
And let's not forget that it was Paul who started the song fights.
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Post by vectisfabber on Jan 10, 2011 16:44:20 GMT -5
BTTE
Imagine2 is such a good side, but I love BTTE2, especially Winter Rose/Love Awakes, and Baby's Request.
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Post by acebackwords on Jan 10, 2011 16:52:31 GMT -5
Gotta go with Imagine, if only for How Do You Sleep and Oh Yoko -- two great songs that couldn't be more different than eachother, to the point where it seems like they were written by two different people.
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jan 10, 2011 17:24:50 GMT -5
At some point the inclusion of the pathetic and childish "How Do You Sleep" is going to cause me to vote against IMAGINE side 2. Ah, individual taste - there's nothing like it. For me, this is the only song on side 2 worthy of John Lennon. It has wit, power, passion: all the things I love about him. Just because he's having a go at Macca doesn't matter a damn to me. It's a grand sweeping song. Now look at the rest: Truth is John Lennon at his cliche best. A boring song lyrically, though it is arranged and played very well. Oh My Love - cringe-worthy. How - written in his sleep, and sounds like it. Oh Yoko - embarrassing: in the middle of a shave I call your name?! Careful you don't cut yourself. So John scores a 1/5. But it beats the big zero from the bad egg (how many jokes can one make about an album with "egg" in its title?) My god, BTTE is an awful album, and no mistake. Vote for John Lennon going in ... now. McCabe |
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Post by mikev on Jan 10, 2011 19:16:39 GMT -5
BACK TO THE EGG, Side 2
1. Rockestra Theme decent rocker- but Jeff Lynne already beat you to the idea
2. To You not a bad throwaway
3. After The Ball / Million Miles first of the two "medley" songs just okay
4. Winter Rose / Love Awake The better medley
5. The Broadcast why?
6. So Glad To See You Here see 1 above
7. Baby's Request Your mother should know, honey pie gave you the answer...
IMAGINE, Side 2
1. "Gimme Some Truth" a great Beatle album cut
2. "Oh My Love" classic soft Lennon
3. "How Do You Sleep?" so he rips on Paul BFD-George's chops are good but he is not EC.
4. "How?" classic soft Lennon -but I repeat myself
5. "Oh Yoko!" In the middle of a s#@t I call your name.
BTTE has aged well IMO, but can't beat two Beatles together.
BTW (lots of abbrevs ain't there) the musicians were somewhat wasted on the Rockestra songs.
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Post by acebackwords on Jan 10, 2011 19:52:44 GMT -5
At some point the inclusion of the pathetic and childish "How Do You Sleep" is going to cause me to vote against IMAGINE side 2. Ah, individual taste - there's nothing like it. For me, this is the only song on side 2 worthy of John Lennon.McCabe Gotta go with McCabe on this one. You could call "How Do You Sleep" a hate song. There are plenty of love songs. But how 'bout a hate song? And years before Punk Rock made it fashionable. The genius of Lennon was his rare ability to express ALL the emotions. Love. Hate. Fear. Jealousy. Pain. Joy. Hallucinations. Universal Love. Etc. He was a rare boy, our John. |
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Post by acebackwords on Jan 10, 2011 19:54:19 GMT -5
5. "Oh Yoko!" In the middle of a s#@t I call your name.. Ha ha!! |
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Jan 10, 2011 23:02:04 GMT -5
And let's not forget that it was Paul who started the song fights. Let's not forget it was John who started the fight with his attack on Paul (and everyone else) in the Rolling Stone interview in Dec. 1970. I went with Paul on this but it was close. I went with John on side 1. BTTE side 2 is the weaker side, yet it is still damn good. I don't think the Rockestra musicians were wasted: Fantastic and more exciting than anything on side two of Imagine although Gimmie Some Truth comes close. Here is another good one from BTTE. Love Awake is especially brilliant. The things that really lift How Do You Sleep? are Phil Spector's orchestration and George's guitar. I was always bored with How? but oddly enough not so of The Broadcast. That was David Bowie's favorite cut on the album according to Paul, even suggesting it be released as a single. |
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Post by John S. Damm on Jan 10, 2011 23:32:35 GMT -5
Rockestra was a bloated failure. It was proof that by 1979, pop music was inhabited by too many dinosaurs.
The other song, "So Glad To See You Here," was the obvious opener for the um, abbreviated 1979 tour. Obvious to everyone but Paul. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2011 2:26:48 GMT -5
IMAGINE, Side 2
I really like this album of John's whereas i find Paul's BTTE a bit of a disappointment.
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Post by sayne on Jan 11, 2011 2:53:39 GMT -5
Okay, I vote to have these polls put in a separate forum, like Beatles on YouTube or Beatles Movies, etc. When I see the Beatles forum, I look to see what the last post is. Often of late, it's been a poll post, but that doesn't mean that there have not been other posts about the Beatles. So, I open it up and see that the vast majority of posts HAVE been about the polls.
My feeling is that when one goes to the Beatles forum, the posts and threads should really about topics and themes. I don't find the polls to be in that realm.
I'm not giving any editorial about the polls or begrudging anyone from taking part. I just think that we have gotten to a point where ALL polls should have a separate forum because there are so many of them that seem to be clogging up the Beatles forum.
Am I alone in this?
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jan 11, 2011 5:41:01 GMT -5
And let's not forget that it was Paul who started the song fights. Let's not forget it was John who started the fight with his attack on Paul (and everyone else) in the Rolling Stone interview in Dec. 1970. I'll play. Let's not forget that Paul started the fight by bossing everyone around in-studio and being rude (along with everyone else) toward John's new girlfriend. |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jan 11, 2011 5:43:49 GMT -5
I vote for IMAGINE here. I love HOW DO YOU SLEEP - it really stops playing subtle games like dandy Paulie and instead, just bitch-slaps its target right in the open.
I love Paul's BTTE, but I like Side 1 much more than Side 2.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jan 11, 2011 5:50:05 GMT -5
Now look at the rest: Truth is John Lennon at his cliche best. A boring song lyrically, You've got to be kidding! TRUTH has some great, snide, elaborate lyrics in it. ("Schizophrenic, egocentric, paranoid prima donnas"  ) ;D I think these are all top tier Lennon Love Songs, with fine lyrics and sentiments. What's wrong with the "shave" lyric? Everywhere John goes, every little thing he does, he thinks lovingly of his wife. Just wonderful. |
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Post by RockoRoll on Jan 11, 2011 8:14:11 GMT -5
BACK TO THE EGG, Side 2
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wooltonian
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"Football isn't a matter of life and death - it's much more important than that." Bill Shankly.
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Post by wooltonian on Jan 11, 2011 8:33:41 GMT -5
I love HOW DO YOU SLEEP - it really stops playing subtle games like dandy Paulie and instead, just bitch-slaps its target right in the open. For 'bitch-slap' read childish, sneering, mean-spirited and nasty. 'Bitch-slap' would imply venom, energy and vitriol. 'How do you sleep' struggles to get out of bed, is musically insipid and is climaxed by a whiny slide guitar solo from George. A pox on it. |
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Post by coachbk on Jan 11, 2011 9:54:43 GMT -5
[/quote]
For 'bitch-slap' read childish, sneering, mean-spirited and nasty. 'Bitch-slap' would imply venom, energy and vitriol. 'How do you sleep' struggles to get out of bed, is musically insipid and is climaxed by a whiny slide guitar solo from George. A pox on it.
[/quote]
Wow, someone who hates "How Do You Sleep" even more than I do (since I like George's slide guitar)!
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Post by vectisfabber on Jan 11, 2011 14:50:04 GMT -5
Me too - HDYS was one of the final nails in the coffin with John (in retrospect) as far as I was concerned. John seemed to set out to alienate everyone - famiily, friends, colleagues, fans - from the period through to Imagine, and the petty minded spite of HDYS was one of the final, and biggest elements of that. I find it deeply depressing that one of John's least admirable qualities - his ability to be publicly and unnecessarily (and untruthfully) nasty - is paradoxically something which leads people to say oh how wonderful he was. In this instance he was a nasty piece of work, and HDYS does him no credit at all.
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Post by stavros on Jan 11, 2011 14:51:04 GMT -5
I really think both of these sides are great but am going to vote for BTTE 2 simply to see if it stops John running away with this one.
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jan 11, 2011 15:06:06 GMT -5
Now look at the rest: Truth is John Lennon at his cliche best. A boring song lyrically, You've got to be kidding! TRUTH has some great, snide, elaborate lyrics in it. ("Schizophrenic, egocentric, paranoid prima donnas" ) ;D Listing adjectives (schizophrenic, egocentric, paranoic) is NOT presenting "elaborate" lyrics. Lennon is an excellent wordsmith, and a master of wordplay: this song is (lyrically) unworthy of him. Oh My Love - cringe-worthy. How - written in his sleep, and sounds like it. Oh Yoko - embarrassing: in the middle of a shave I call your name?! Careful you don't cut yourself. I think these are all top tier Lennon Love Songs, with fine lyrics and sentiments. What's wrong with the "shave" lyric? Everywhere John goes, every little thing he does, he thinks lovingly of his wife. Just wonderful. Well, I think they're mundane - especially the Oh Yoko lyrics. Yes, John, we understand that you love her very much, and every single second, no matter what you're doing, you think of her. But once again you just list the situations: bathing, dreaming, shaving. Boring. Even when you're "in the middle of a cloud" - whatever that means. |
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Jan 11, 2011 15:53:35 GMT -5
You've got to be kidding! TRUTH has some great, snide, elaborate lyrics in it. ("Schizophrenic, egocentric, paranoid prima donnas" ) ;D Listing adjectives (schizophrenic, egocentric, paranoic) is NOT presenting "elaborate" lyrics. Lennon is an excellent wordsmith, and a master of wordplay: this song is (lyrically) unworthy of him. I think these are all top tier Lennon Love Songs, with fine lyrics and sentiments. What's wrong with the "shave" lyric? Everywhere John goes, every little thing he does, he thinks lovingly of his wife. Just wonderful. Well, I think they're mundane - especially the Oh Yoko lyrics. Yes, John, we understand that you love her very much, and every single second, no matter what you're doing, you think of her. But once again you just list the situations: bathing, dreaming, shaving. Boring. Even when you're "in the middle of a cloud" - whatever that means.[/quote] The HP (Hewlett-Packard) cloud like the one they are creating for Paul. |
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Post by RockoRoll on Jan 11, 2011 17:00:36 GMT -5
I've read so many good/bad posts on *How Do You Sleep*, but what occasionly puts me off John was when his film came out Imagine/Gimme Some Truth?. Obviously the uncut version, and they decided show it Xmas time (which was stupid thing to do, from our TV Network?) He performs the song, and right at the end, John finishes off with *How Do You Sleep at night, ya c**tI don't care what anyone says in regards to the lyrics to the song, but that last bit was below the belt....  IMO, those two words at the end of that line, should have been removed/edited, from the film.....  |
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Post by joeyself on Jan 11, 2011 20:43:51 GMT -5
I went with BTTE 2, although I'm not as thrilled with it as I am the first side.
IMA 2 has the nice "Oh Yoko" to finish it up--I like the bouncy melody, and it's the best Lennon song I can think of that actually mentions the missus by name in the lyrics. Other than that, I'm not likely to put any of the other four on a mix tape/disc, and am in the camp that thinks "How Do You Sleep" is both ponderous and ridiculous.
BTTE 2 has the two medleys that are a drag on the program, but I enjoy three of the cuts very much, including one that is always a contender for my top 10 Macca tracks: "So Glad To See You Here." "Baby's Request" has grown on me over the years, and I like "To You" quite a bit.
So, as a total listening experience, there are more songs that I like on BTTE 2, and even with that 10 minute lull in the action in the middle, I would still be more likely to put it on for listening pleasure than IMA 2.
JcS
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Post by ursamajor on Jan 11, 2011 23:38:16 GMT -5
I've read so many good/bad posts on *How Do You Sleep*, but what occasionly puts me off John was when his film came out Imagine/Gimme Some Truth?. Obviously the uncut version, and they decided show it Xmas time (which was stupid thing to do, from our TV Network?) He performs the song, and right at the end, John finishes off with *How Do You Sleep at night, ya c**tI don't care what anyone says in regards to the lyrics to the song, but that last bit was below the belt.... IMO, those two words at the end of that line, should have been removed/edited, from the film..... Hey Rocko, I think the last 2 words you mentioned are how John would have spoken to Paul during the Beatles when they were fighting so in a way I don't mind that being there as the film was called Gimme Some Truth so I guess as fans we were given some truth about John and his relationship with Paul. It's disappointing that things got that low between them no doubt, totally unnecessary. |
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