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Post by joeyself on Jan 20, 2011 14:50:12 GMT -5
RAM, Side 1 vs. SOME TIME IN NEW YORK CITY, Side 2
RAM, Side 1
1. "Too Many People" 4:10
2. "3 Legs" 2:44
3. "Ram On" 2:26
4. "Dear Boy" 2:12
5. "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" 4:49
6. "Smile Away" 3:51
SOME TIME IN NEW YORK CITY, Side 2
1."Sunday Bloody Sunday" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 5:03
2."The Luck Of The Irish" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 2:59
3."John Sinclair" (John Lennon) – 3:30
4."Angela" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 4:08
5."We're All Water" (Yoko Ono) – 5:19
By luck of the draw, RAM 1 faces another side of STINYC. Last round, it dispatched Side 1 by a score of 22-2, while STINYC 1 got here by taking out BAD BOY 2 by a count of 12-4.
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jan 20, 2011 15:27:02 GMT -5
RAM1 is a fine side of Macca Material. I always shudder at Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey, but I shouldn't really should I? It's typical Macca fluff. Ya gotta take the fluff with the grit. ;D
So apart from UA/AH, RAM 1is a great LP side.
SINYC2 has one really great song: Sunday Bloody Sunday. I also like Luck and Sinclair ...
But RAM1 gets my vote. Forgive me John.
McCabe
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jan 20, 2011 15:29:42 GMT -5
Ya gotta take the fluff with the grit. ;D Providing that there's minimal fluff (as on RAM1) and a lot of grit (well smooth grit, as on RAM1  ) McCabe |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jan 20, 2011 17:06:03 GMT -5
We might as well give it to RAM right off the top; SINYC wouldn't have a chance in most matchups anyway,nevermind against RAM Side 1, which is one of the most perfect sides I can think of in solo Beatles history. I love each and every song off Side 1 of RAM.
Go RAM!!
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jan 20, 2011 17:14:51 GMT -5
----------------RAM Side 1, which is one of the most perfect sides I can think of in solo Beatles history. I love each and every song off Side 1 of RAM. You mean, of course, except for Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey. I know that, for you are a man of taste and discernment, Mr Karlosi! Being serious though, you must educate me on this song, which I find asinine. I've even read in places that some folk think it would have slotted nicely on Abbey Road! Foolish fellows! I presume you are not one of these. But I would like you, My Karlosi, to try and sell me on this song. McCabe |
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Post by mikev on Jan 20, 2011 17:17:44 GMT -5
No contest Ram.
Lennon's music is great- even Yoko's is not too bad- just the lyrical content is so topical and dated.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jan 20, 2011 17:38:31 GMT -5
You mean, of course, except for Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey. I know that, for you are a man of taste and discernment, Mr Karlosi! Being serious though, you must educate me on this song, which I find asinine. I've even read in places that some folk think it would have slotted nicely on Abbey Road! Foolish fellows! I presume you are not one of these. But I would like you, My Karlosi, to try and sell me on this song. McCabe I'm not sure I can. We all like things or don't like things for different reasons. With me, I fully admit that it was a song I heard on the radio constantly in 1971 when I was 9 years old, and it is rather kid-friendly in style. So there's that, plus it gives me the nostalgic feeling of those wonderful days. It's one of those songs that makes me feel just wonderful any time I catch it by accident on the radio. But aside from the warm fuzzies, I think it's just a FUN song, and it's got many moods. I love the way Paul comes right in at the solemn start with no music and "We're so sorry, Uncle Albert"... and the crashing of thunder and lightning, and then how the whole thing gets ultimately bizarre and wacky. And there is the "Hands across the water", which I have always adored, and I hear Linda in there and think her voice really adds to the whole bit. Another special sensation of husband and wife together, making some music and having a blast together!! There. I have attempted to convey my fondness for the song. However, I must tell you that I've always been of the belief that it is the duty of the minority dissenting voter (you in this case) which has to explain himself (be it not liking a popular song, or movie). UNCLE ALBERT was a #1 hit, and I think it's the best song on the RAM album. I actually like DEAR BOY, but I get shrills of excitement and delightful anticipation when I hear the very ending of DB, just knowing that we're about to go into UNCLE AL. |
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Post by acebackwords on Jan 20, 2011 18:25:19 GMT -5
Wow, how's that for a compare-and-contrast between John and Paul. Shrill radical politics versus lightweight pop. Its hard to believe these two sides once co-existed in the same band. Uncle Albert is one of my all-time favorite solo tracks. Ram all the way.
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Post by stavros on Jan 20, 2011 18:32:20 GMT -5
Weird how this side of RAM came up against SINYC in the last round too.
I haven't changed my view that RAM has 4 great songs and "3 Legs" is poor and "Smile Away" I have grown less fond of as they years go by. "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" is a much more complicated work than it's "Yellow Submarine II" lyrics first convey. It is worthy of being a Beatles track and I can imagine this with John and George singing harmony.
As for SINYC well "Luck of the Irish" is actually good and "Sunday Bloody Sunday" almost as good. But the production is appalling.
RAM wins easy
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Post by coachbk on Jan 20, 2011 19:09:00 GMT -5
Easy win for RAM. Only weak spot on this side is "3 Legs". I love "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey": so much musical variety in one song. "Too Many People" is a great opener. "Dear Boy" is quite Beatlesque. "Ram On" is quite nice and "Smile Away" is dumb rocking fun.
As for SINYC, I like the music to "Luck Of The Irish" and "We Are All Water" is one of Yoko's best. Hardly the resume of a great or even good album.
RAM should get close to unanimous support in this match.
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jan 20, 2011 19:20:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure I can. We all like things or don't like things for different reasons. With me, I fully admit that it was a song I heard on the radio constantly in 1971 when I was 9 years old, and it is rather kid-friendly in style. So there's that, plus it gives me the nostalgic feeling of those wonderful days. It's one of those songs that makes me feel just wonderful any time I catch it by accident on the radio. Hmm. In 1971 I was 22. I get it completely; it was a kid-friendly song for you, and it tugs nostalgic strings nowadays. For me, it was embarrassing fluff. Then, and now. It is truly so, that milages may vary! I rather thought both sides of any discussion should state their cases. I feel you may be thinking here of the burden of proof being on the asserter: but that is in situations such as asserting the existence of something ... Here I merely asked you to try and sell me on this song. And this you did (the try part I mean). And that says a whole lot about you Joe, rather than the song! That wins the award for fruitiest post so far in '11. But thanks for responding to my request. McCabe |
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Post by vectisfabber on Jan 20, 2011 19:54:05 GMT -5
I have made my opinions on SINYC2 known elsewhere.
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diego
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Post by diego on Jan 20, 2011 20:10:23 GMT -5
Could Lennon possibly go with zero votes!!  |
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Post by theman on Jan 20, 2011 20:21:11 GMT -5
Could Lennon possibly go with zero votes!! Yes is the Answer...and you know that, for sure ;D. |
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Post by John S. Damm on Jan 20, 2011 22:41:50 GMT -5
Ram-1
Ram is one of my favorite solo albums. R-1 is my favorite Side of Ram because of "Dear Boy," one of my favorite Paul songs of any era.
Ram has an overt and subtle theme of funky vulgarity that I love because Paul always suppresses such tendencies to preserve that famed suave image of his. This funkiness must come from hippy, deodorant-free, hairy Linda and Ram was the highwater mark of Linda's influence on Paul's music. Never again would Paul openly sing about body odor from various sources and chunky monkey sexual acts. Obvious examples are "Smile Away"and "Monkberry Moon Delight" from R-2 and subtle examples are"3 Legs" and oral sex anthem disguised as Buddy Holly tribute "Eat At Home" on R-2. Go Linda!
I am not going to throw John's STINYC-2 under the bus but nor will I vote for it here. Actually, STINYC-2 is not bad.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jan 20, 2011 22:58:53 GMT -5
----------------RAM Side 1, which is one of the most perfect sides I can think of in solo Beatles history. I love each and every song off Side 1 of RAM. You mean, of course, except for Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey. I know that, for you are a man of taste and discernment, Mr Karlosi! Being serious though, you must educate me on this song, which I find asinine. I've even read in places that some folk think it would have slotted nicely on Abbey Road! Foolish fellows! I presume you are not one of these..... Based upon your general disillusionment with Abbey Road Sir Joe, would not "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" be perfect for that album? They deserve each other!  |
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jan 21, 2011 0:07:16 GMT -5
You mean, of course, except for Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey. I know that, for you are a man of taste and discernment, Mr Karlosi! Being serious though, you must educate me on this song, which I find asinine. I've even read in places that some folk think it would have slotted nicely on Abbey Road! Foolish fellows! I presume you are not one of these..... Based upon your general disillusionment with Abbey Road Sir Joe, would not "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" be perfect for that album? They deserve each other! I rate Albert/Halsey very low. Even though I find Abbey Road's medleys artificial and superficial, their arrangement and sounds do conjure up a certain ... atmosphere. Albert/Halsey has no redeeming feature that I can see. McCabe |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2011 4:34:25 GMT -5
SOME TIME IN NEW YORK CITY, Side 2
I'm in the minority....i'm not a big fan of Ram...either side....
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Post by RockoRoll on Jan 21, 2011 5:31:49 GMT -5
Ram-1 for me, with John's STINYC-2 what can I say, some songs are great, and a couple absolute shockers, especially the last song .*We're All Water*.....  Its *Yoko's* voice I can't handle, prefer John on his own...  (with *The Luck Of The Irish*, I would have given it a rating of 5, had Yoko not have sung her parts... ...) Ram-1 1. "Too Many People" 4:10**** 2. "3 Legs" 2:44**** 3. "Ram On" 2:26**** 4. "Dear Boy" 2:12 **** 5. "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" 4:49***** 6. "Smile Away" 3:51**** SOME TIME IN NEW YORK CITY, Side 2 1."Sunday Bloody Sunday" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 5:03* 2."The Luck Of The Irish" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 2:59**** 3."John Sinclair" (John Lennon) – 3:30*** 4."Angela" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 4:08*** 5."We're All Water" (Yoko Ono) – 5:19* |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jan 21, 2011 5:52:21 GMT -5
And that says a whole lot about you Joe, rather than the song! That wins the award for fruitiest post so far in '11. But thanks for responding to my request. McCabe Well, you ignored the part of my post where I went into the specific details about the song itself that I enjoy, apart from the bit that I was a kid when I first heard it and it was kid-friendly. That detail was not "fruity". What is unfortunate is that I thought better of indulging you but I took the chance, only to have my sincere post labeled as "fruity"? There are songs I've loved when I was a kid that I grew out of when I got older. But the excellent UA is not one of those. And the reason I say the burden of explanation is on you (in this case) is not because of the "asserter"... it's because when there's something so generally praised and loved by the majority, it requires "no defending". The question to me has always been more why the relatively few people who DON'T appreciate what most others do, feels the way he does. Like with The Beatles themselves ---- it's not so much those of us who feel the Beatles were talented greats who have some 'splainin' to do; it's the minority who just 'don't get it' that need to be heard from. For they are the enigma. |
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Post by ursamajor on Jan 21, 2011 6:07:56 GMT -5
I voted for SINYC - 2
It wasn't going to beat RAM - 1 but I really like the musical textures of Luck of The Irish and Angela which I think is brilliant. John lost a great chance to make perhaps his best ever musical statement by being so political. We're All Water is Yoko's avant-garde masterpiece, John Sinclair and Sunday Bloody Sunday aren't filler so it's quite a strong side musically. Lyrically yes it's dated and irrelevant today.
Ram - 1 is musical and I really like Ram On, it's short but a cutesy Paul ditty. Uncle Albert is classic catchy Paul pop. Like others Dear Boy is another melodic merangue of voices, the backup vocals are the best on any song on RAM. The rest of the songs are great too, the only exception is Smile Away , lazy lyrics about BO ... ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww !!!!
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Post by joeyself on Jan 21, 2011 9:37:24 GMT -5
I voted for SINYC - 2 It wasn't going to beat RAM - 1 but I really like the musical textures of Luck of The Irish and Angela which I think is brilliant. John lost a great chance to make perhaps his best ever musical statement by being so political. We're All Water is Yoko's avant-garde masterpiece, John Sinclair and Sunday Bloody Sunday aren't filler so it's quite a strong side musically. Lyrically yes it's dated and irrelevant today. Ram - 1 is musical and I really like Ram On, it's short but a cutesy Paul ditty. Uncle Albert is classic catchy Paul pop. Like others Dear Boy is another melodic merangue of voices, the backup vocals are the best on any song on RAM. The rest of the songs are great too, the only exception is Smile Away , lazy lyrics about BO ... ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww !!!! I agree with a lot of what you wrote--I'm quick to praise "We're All Water," even if it does go on too long, "Luck Of The Irish" and "Sunday Bloody Sunday" are OK for what that are (wrongheaded, but nice enough to listen to if you have no personal stake in the subject matter), and much of it is outdated/irrelevant now. And "Smile Away" is the weak spot of RAM 1, and where I got up to lift the needle many times. I adore "Too Many People," "Dear Boy" and "UA/AH," think "Ram On" is fine, and even enjoy "3 Legs" most of the time. RAM 1 gets this vote without any hesistation. JcS |
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Post by RockoRoll on Jan 21, 2011 10:15:33 GMT -5
You mean, of course, except for Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey. I know that, for you are a man of taste and discernment, Mr Karlosi! Being serious though, you must educate me on this song, which I find asinine. I've even read in places that some folk think it would have slotted nicely on Abbey Road! Foolish fellows! I presume you are not one of these. But I would like you, My Karlosi, to try and sell me on this song. McCabe I'm not sure I can. We all like things or don't like things for different reasons. With me, I fully admit that it was a song I heard on the radio constantly in 1971 when I was 9 years old, and it is rather kid-friendly in style. So there's that, plus it gives me the nostalgic feeling of those wonderful days. It's one of those songs that makes me feel just wonderful any time I catch it by accident on the radio. But aside from the warm fuzzies, I think it's just a FUN song, and it's got many moods. I love the way Paul comes right in at the solemn start with no music and "We're so sorry, Uncle Albert"... and the crashing of thunder and lightning, and then how the whole thing gets ultimately bizarre and wacky. And there is the "Hands across the water", which I have always adored, and I hear Linda in there and think her voice really adds to the whole bit. Another special sensation of husband and wife together, making some music and having a blast together!! There. I have attempted to convey my fondness for the song. However, I must tell you that I've always been of the belief that it is the duty of the minority dissenting voter (you in this case) which has to explain himself (be it not liking a popular song, or movie). UNCLE ALBERT was a #1 hit, and I think it's the best song on the RAM album. I actually like DEAR BOY, but I get shrills of excitement and delightful anticipation when I hear the very ending of DB, just knowing that we're about to go into UNCLE AL. Well said Joe, I was a couple years older than ya, and went through same thing.....I loved UA/AH during this period, it was constantly on the radio, the same with Imagine, and Rod Stewart's Maggie May.....  Those were the Days...... |
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Post by JCV on Jan 21, 2011 12:42:50 GMT -5
RAM, Side 1Rock on, Paul! JCV
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jan 21, 2011 16:06:52 GMT -5
And the reason I say the burden of explanation is on you (in this case) is not because of the "asserter"... it's because when there's something so generally praised and loved by the majority, it requires "no defending". The question to me has always been more why the relatively few people who DON'T appreciate what most others do, feels the way he does. Like with The Beatles themselves ---- it's not so much those of us who feel the Beatles were talented greats who have some 'splainin' to do; it's the minority who just 'don't get it' that need to be heard from. For they are the enigma. When people are discussing their preferences in matters such as food, panoramic views, and music, there is no "burden of explanation" at all. They just discuss what it is they find attractive, or mundane, whatever. For a supposed deep & original thinker, you always seem to me to be an arch conservative in many things. But have a good day, Mr K. You're nothing if not entertaining. McCabe |
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jan 21, 2011 16:13:53 GMT -5
By the way, all RAM lovers -
Can I recommend (again!) that you look to investigate the MONO version of RAM? It is much punchier than the stereo version, and some tracks are mixed noticeably differently. Paul remixed the album especially in mono for ease of (AM) radio play: the mono LP was sent to several stations in the US, but not very many: which is why it is so rare.
I read a comment on another board a while ago that STEREO RAM = pop, but MONO RAM = rock.
That's overstating the situation, but the soft feel that many think runs through stereo RAM is much less evident on the mono version.
I would post a link here, but that is forbidden. But a pm to me will give you satisfaction.
McCabe
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jan 21, 2011 17:11:05 GMT -5
And the reason I say the burden of explanation is on you (in this case) is not because of the "asserter"... it's because when there's something so generally praised and loved by the majority, it requires "no defending". The question to me has always been more why the relatively few people who DON'T appreciate what most others do, feels the way he does. Like with The Beatles themselves ---- it's not so much those of us who feel the Beatles were talented greats who have some 'splainin' to do; it's the minority who just 'don't get it' that need to be heard from. For they are the enigma. When people are discussing their preferences in matters such as food, panoramic views, and music, there is no "burden of explanation" at all. They just discuss what it is they find attractive, or mundane, whatever. For a supposed deep & original thinker, you always seem to me to be an arch conservative in many things. But have a good day, Mr K. You're nothing if not entertaining. McCabe And still you have not at all acknowledged my comments on what I enjoy about the song itself. I still don't understand your attitude here. You pretended to be generally interested in why I liked UNCLE ALBERT, and though I figured you were merely trying to set me up, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and responded honestly and thoroughly. So you don't get it. Well, that's your problem, not mine. And you should know that I find you (unintentionally) entertaining. You wouldn't be happy knowing the reasons. |
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Post by acebackwords on Jan 21, 2011 17:24:45 GMT -5
Myself, I've always loved that psychedelic kinda' stoner music, which is what UNCLE ALBERT kinda' is, ain't it? I get the feeling McCartney has smoked some good weed in his day and grooved to all the places that song can take you. I just like the whole evocative mood, like with the cricket sounds and like he's talking on the telephone: "We're SO-O-O sorry, Uncle Albert, but the kettle's on the boil and we're so easily called away." YEAH-YEAHHH.. . etc.
But if other people find it lightweight and trifling, if not downright irritating, thats their reality, too.
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Post by joeyself on Jan 21, 2011 19:46:35 GMT -5
By the way, all RAM lovers - Can I recommend (again!) that you look to investigate the MONO version of RAM? It is much punchier than the stereo version, and some tracks are mixed noticeably differently. Paul remixed the album especially in mono for ease of (AM) radio play: the mono LP was sent to several stations in the US, but not very many: which is why it is so rare. I read a comment on another board a while ago that STEREO RAM = pop, but MONO RAM = rock. That's overstating the situation, but the soft feel that many think runs through stereo RAM is much less evident on the mono version. I would post a link here, but that is forbidden. But a pm to me will give you satisfaction. McCabe I've heard the mono RAM, and didn't find that I took anything more from the listening experience from mono than I did stereo. I mean, "Smile Away" and "Long Haired Lady" were still annoying, "Dear Boy" and "Too Many People" were still great. The variation in the mixes--in some cases, very slight indeed--just didn't make a weak song stronger to me. JcS |
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jan 21, 2011 23:12:23 GMT -5
And still you have not at all acknowledged my comments on what I enjoy about the song itself. What, you mean this bit? I refrained, because of your troubles with your wife. I wanted to stay well away from commenting on any such angle, for fear of stepping on your toes, and opening fresh wounds. I assume you mean genuinely, though I'm not sure. For the record, I was genuinely interested - in your reasons for liking the song. And I was not trying to set you up. Joe Karlosi, you are paranoid. A riposte such as this was called "coming second" in my playground. My advice is: if you're trying to score a point, be original. Don't simply say "same to you" in so many words - it sounds so very "try-hard". McCabe |
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