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Post by joeyself on Nov 22, 2010 17:24:14 GMT -5
MIND GAMES, Side 1 vs. ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2
MIND GAMES, Side 1
1. "Mind Games" 4:13
2. "Tight A$" 3:37
3. "Aisumasen (I'm Sorry)" 4:44
4. "One Day (At a Time)" 3:09
5. "Bring on the Lucie (Freda Peeple)" 4:12
6. "Nutopian International Anthem" 0:03
ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2
1. "What Is Life" 4:22
2. "If Not for You" (Bob Dylan) 3:29
3. "Behind That Locked Door" 3:05
4. "Let It Down" 4:57
5. "Run of the Mill" 2:49
JcS
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Post by acebackwords on Nov 22, 2010 18:36:16 GMT -5
Gotta go with All Things Must Pass. George was asking deep, if confused, spiritual questions. While John was offering pat spiritual answers. "Yes is the answer and you know that for sure." uh
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Nov 22, 2010 20:50:37 GMT -5
Gotta go with All Things Must Pass. George was asking deep, if confused, spiritual questions. While John was offering pat spiritual answers. "Yes is the answer and you know that for sure." uh Man, I would love you to enlarge on that!  Confused is the LAST word I would apply to George Harrison in the spiritual sphere. I would say that he was a man who knew and understood very clearly his beliefs and their ramifications. McCabe |
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Nov 22, 2010 21:01:31 GMT -5
Mind Games Side 1? Is it a compliment to say that the song Mind Games has goofy lyrics but is very listenable? Is it a compliment to say that Tight A$ is the rocking-est track on Side 1, though it has no balls to it at all? (Even the coy A$ is embarrassing: come on, is this John Lennon?) Is it a compliment to say that Nutopian International Anthem is a meaningless pose that thankfully only lasts 3 s? Is it a compliment to say that Tracks 3, 4 and 5 are boring to listen to, but luckily quite forgettable?
ATMP Side 2 only sags a little with If Not For You: the song is a bit so-so for me, though George's arrangement is top notch. The other four songs are first rate, with What Is Life the best: such an uplifting and energizing song to listen to.
Easy call: ATMP2
McCabe
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Post by joeyself on Nov 22, 2010 22:03:21 GMT -5
As far as putting on a Lennon album and playing it for pleasure, MIND GAMES is at the top of my list. I especially like the middle 1/8 of a second Yoko contributed to "Nutopian International Anthem"--it just made it what it is!  None of these songs, save the single, are great, but none are cringeworthy, and that's an accomplishment for a Lennon album. But it stands NO chance for my vote against ATMP 2. Not a clunker in the bunch; the arrangements are a bit much--if you even get the chance to hear the "The Making Of ALL THINGS MUST PASS" boot, you'll hear what I mean. It's probably on YouTube--everything else seems to be these days. JcS |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2010 3:44:06 GMT -5
ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2
George at his best here with songs so much better than those on Mind Games 1.....
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 23, 2010 6:42:56 GMT -5
This one's very hard because I like both pretty equally.
I will pick MIND GAMES though, because I just think I'd prefer to hear that side over George's, most times. If it had been SIDE ONE of ATMP, I would feel differently.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 23, 2010 6:43:58 GMT -5
Gotta go with All Things Must Pass. George was asking deep, if confused, spiritual questions. While John was offering pat spiritual answers. "Yes is the answer and you know that for sure." uh Positive thinking. Optimism. I think "Yes is the answer" is a powerful phrase. |
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Post by joeyself on Nov 23, 2010 8:02:10 GMT -5
Positive thinking. Optimism. I think "Yes is the answer" is a powerful phrase. Doesn't it depend on the question? JcS |
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Post by mikev on Nov 23, 2010 8:20:27 GMT -5
MIND GAMES, Side 1 vs. ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2
MIND GAMES, Side 1
1. "Mind Games" 10 Not his top but a great song
2. "Tight A$" 8 rocks, but kind of says little
3. "Aisumasen (I'm Sorry)" 9 I always enjoyed this track
4. "One Day (At a Time)" 7 sappy pop that everyone thought only Mac was capable of
5. "Bring on the Lucie (Freda Peeple)" 9 Another one of my favs-should have been George on the slide
6. "Nutopian International Anthem" 0:03 –not gonnadoit- not rating this sorry
ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2
1. "What Is Life" 10 One of my top 4 solo hits
2. "If Not for You" (Bob Dylan) 9 could have been a single-did get AM airplay
3. "Behind That Locked Door" 9 nice country song
4. "Let It Down" 8.5 Beatles’ attempt was pretty lame
5. "Run of the Mill" 9 strong album cut
George in a squeaker.
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Post by coachbk on Nov 23, 2010 9:44:46 GMT -5
This is a tough first round match. MIND GAMES side 1 is one of my favorite Lennon solo sides. I think "Mind Games" is fantastic-it has grown in my estimation over the years. "Tight As" and "Freeda People" are fun rockers. "Aisumasen" is a good song. Only "One Day" is weak.
But ATMP side 2 wins out. "What Is Life" is great in every way. "Run Of The Mill" is one of George's best album cuts: very strong lyrics. "Let It Down" has a bit of a mix of styles that keeps it interesting. "Behind That Locked Door" is country style done quite well. This is my favorite version of "If Not For You".
MG side 1 would beat many sides, but ATMP side 2 isn't one of them.
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 23, 2010 9:57:15 GMT -5
ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2
This was very, very hard. John's MG-1 contains the magnificent title song "Mind Games" which is just so stirring and dramatic even if the lyrics are what each of us make of them(but that is what makes the lyrics special IMO). MG is one of my favorite solo Beatle songs and part of that is that I liked it before I was even a Beatles' fan and knew who John Lennon was: it was a favorite of mine when WLS played it as it often did in 1973 and subsequently through the years before John was killed. It was always radio friendly.
George counters with his true classic hit "What is Life," a song not tainted by charges of plagiarism or religious dogma like "My Sweet Lord" although just as spiritual I suspect, as most Hari songs were. This song has also remained very radio friendly. On many a school bus ride in the 1970's did I see many pretty young girls sing along to this song, the type of girls who weren't otherwise listening to George Harrison back then. That impressed this budding Beatles' fan!
I agree with McCabe that "Tight A$" thinks it rocks but doesn't really, a lot like many of Paul's so-called rockers like "I've Had Enough," etc. Sometimes John and Paul were too uptight and tried too hard to rock and fall flat. TA is one of those times. Still, it is not terrible, just not gut wrenching rock and roll. In John's defense on the self-censored title, even the Stones(and specifically Keith Richards) did the same thing on "Little T&A."
Come on boys, your two bands help win the artistic freedom to come out and say tits and ass!
To me George's low point on ATMP-2 is "Let It Down" but that is Spector's fault for over-producing it. There is a great song under there as proved on Beware Of ABKCO.
What gives my vote here to George is John's miserable, uber-wimpy "One Day At A Time." Oh do I hate this official version. Give me the Lennon Anthology version any day!
Still, two very good album Sides here and it was very close for me. I must add that I love "Run Of The Mill," very moving.
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Post by acebackwords on Nov 23, 2010 10:17:04 GMT -5
Gotta go with All Things Must Pass. George was asking deep, if confused, spiritual questions. While John was offering pat spiritual answers. "Yes is the answer and you know that for sure." uh Man, I would love you to enlarge on that! Confused is the LAST word I would apply to George Harrison in the spiritual sphere. I would say that he was a man who knew and understood very clearly his beliefs and their ramifications. McCabe I don't know, I might be over my head here. Its difficult to comment on and evaluate another person's spiritual state of mind. Its something that may have gotten me in trouble with my "Acid Heroes" book which is somewhat of a harsh critique of the spiritual merit of the '60s psychedelic movement and the people who brought it to us. For one thing, a person's spirituality is such a personal subject. So its probably none of my business. Though I suppose I have a right to comment on George and the other '60s spiritual icons since George is the one who opted to present his views to the public. As well as the fact that those publicly stated beliefs had a profound effect on the public at large (i.e. the popularization of LSD, the Maharishi, Krishna consciousness, etc) for good and ill. I mean, its hard to comprehensively review ATMP without reviewing (in a way) George's spiritual state. Just as its hard to review "Some Time in New York City" without reviewing Lennon's political views. By "confused" I meant that George was primarily a seeker, someone who thrashed through the wilderness of religion and spirituality. Went through many different phases. Often talked of his struggles with karmic issues and complications. Ultimately seemed to veer wildly from the extremes of total ascetic fundamentalism to rocknroll hedonism. Had a desparate searching for God that (as usual) was probably inspired by great spiritual pain. I dunno. His friends called him "His Lectureship" behind his back when he got on his high horse (dark or otherwise). |
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Post by ursamajor on Nov 23, 2010 14:47:47 GMT -5
ATMP S-2
MG S-1 is no slouch but George's side is better except for Let It Down, which I think is too long and over produced.
I think on MG and W&B John produced these himself, I think he definitely needed a producer to bring out the best in his songs. Like JSD said , One Day at A Time, you can't put that song on with friends around. Even the Anthology version , it sounds like a kiddies nursery rhyme.
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Nov 23, 2010 15:50:33 GMT -5
Man, I would love you to enlarge on that! Confused is the LAST word I would apply to George Harrison in the spiritual sphere. I would say that he was a man who knew and understood very clearly his beliefs and their ramifications. McCabe I don't know, I might be over my head here. Its difficult to comment on and evaluate another person's spiritual state of mind. Its something that may have gotten me in trouble with my "Acid Heroes" book which is somewhat of a harsh critique of the spiritual merit of the '60s psychedelic movement and the people who brought it to us. For one thing, a person's spirituality is such a personal subject. So its probably none of my business. Though I suppose I have a right to comment on George and the other '60s spiritual icons since George is the one who opted to present his views to the public. As well as the fact that those publicly stated beliefs had a profound effect on the public at large (i.e. the popularization of LSD, the Maharishi, Krishna consciousness, etc) for good and ill. I mean, its hard to comprehensively review ATMP without reviewing (in a way) George's spiritual state. Just as its hard to review "Some Time in New York City" without reviewing Lennon's political views. By "confused" I meant that George was primarily a seeker, someone who thrashed through the wilderness of religion and spirituality. Went through many different phases. Often talked of his struggles with karmic issues and complications. Ultimately seemed to veer wildly from the extremes of total ascetic fundamentalism to rocknroll hedonism. Had a desparate searching for God that (as usual) was probably inspired by great spiritual pain. I dunno. His friends called him "His Lectureship" behind his back when he got on his high horse (dark or otherwise). Thanks for taking the time and trouble to explain what you meant. McCabe |
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Post by nine on Nov 24, 2010 4:47:11 GMT -5
MIND GAMES, Side 1 1. "Mind Games" A great track. 2. "Tight A$" - Whimp rock. Rock'n'Roll People is sorta the same. Insipid. 3. "Aisumasen (I'm Sorry)" The guitar solo on this is very unlike any Lennon track. What I don't like about this track is her name being used again and the production... 4. "One Day (At a Time)" One of Lennon's worst. 5. "Bring on the Lucie (Freda Peeple)" - Yeah I like this one... and The Anthology one. Thumbs up. 6. "Nutopian International Anthem" - I've heard cover versions of this with far more balls. ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2 1. "What Is Life" - Perfectly structured. Perfect pop. I've heard that it was a rip off though...?? 2. "If Not for You" (Bob Dylan) - George does Dylan nicely. 3. "Behind That Locked Door" - Beautiful slide. Melodically rich. 4. "Let It Down" - The bonus track/demo of this shows what a great track this actually was. 5. "Run of the Mill" - Like it. Mind Games suffered, I think, from a lack of focus by John. Coming on the heels Of SINY to me MG sounds like JL trying to return to his craft as a songwriter and not a sloganeer... he's not quite there.... His next outting, Walls & Bridges sees him more focused - on himself again - and he does a good job of being the JL we want him to be... ATMP. What's to say? Many things I hear you say.... My view... Think it's great but it should have been a single album and at times Phil should have been reigned in. It's a pity GH was never one for touring or even playing one off gigs. It would have been a delight to see him play stripped back versions from his catalogue... Any way, GH easily wins hear. JL has only got Mind Games (though Freeda People is fun).... Read more: abbeyrd.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=recent#ixzz16Btgxzr1 |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 24, 2010 7:02:20 GMT -5
Positive thinking. Optimism. I think "Yes is the answer" is a powerful phrase. Doesn't it depend on the question? JcS We all know what John means by "Yes is the answer". It's just a way to mean staying positive, to believe you can do it, etc. I take it to be like Norman Vincent Peale's THE POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING. It's not like you're supposed to listen to MIND GAMES and think that the lyric stinks because what if someone asked the question "Is Murder okay?", or something. Don't forget that John was very taken when he went to Yoko's show and viewed the spyglass and just saw one simple word: "YES". It says so much positive, with one word and implication. |
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Post by acebackwords on Nov 24, 2010 16:52:03 GMT -5
Wow, I think Mind Games is a decent, interesting, though sort of middling album. But the title track is a minor classic, and though maybe I find the "think possitive" stuff a little insipid, there's some great lyrics in that song. So I'm surprised at how George is crushing it in the voting.
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Post by coachbk on Nov 24, 2010 17:03:23 GMT -5
[quote
1. "What Is Life" - Perfectly structured. Perfect pop. I've heard that it was a rip off though...??
quote]
Are you confusing "What Is Life" with "My Sweet Lord"? I've never heard any questions about WIL sounding like any other song!
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Post by acebackwords on Nov 24, 2010 17:56:24 GMT -5
There's always been sort of a debate about the song "Mind Games" -- whether its insipid or uplifting. Lennon himself admits that the original title was "Make Love Not War" ( you can hear him singing that line once near the fade-out -- the anthem that would never be). But he changed it because he felt the line was too much of a cliche.
Lennon's own comments about the Mind Games album was that it was mediocre with "nothing new about it." But then, Lennon could often be his own harshest critic.
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nine
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Post by nine on Nov 25, 2010 3:45:44 GMT -5
[quote 1. "What Is Life" - Perfectly structured. Perfect pop. I've heard that it was a rip off though...?? quote] Are you confusing "What Is Life" with "My Sweet Lord"? I've never heard any questions about WIL sounding like any other song! Nope. I've heard it or read it. He wasn't sued though. Perhaps it was a Lady MAdonna type lift..  |
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Post by stavros on Nov 26, 2010 14:58:08 GMT -5
Well the re-masters were used for my evaluation so completely fair.
Mind Games re-mastered is so much better than previous CD version. But it's title track and "Bring on the Lucie" are the only two tracks that stand up there with anything on this side of ATMP. That's not to say it's a poor album and I have grown to appreciate this and Walls and Bridges a lot more during this competition.
But there is not one poor track on this side of ATMP and a good variety of styles as well. Hari wins.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Nov 26, 2010 18:47:32 GMT -5
[quote 1. "What Is Life" - Perfectly structured. Perfect pop. I've heard that it was a rip off though...?? quote] Are you confusing "What Is Life" with "My Sweet Lord"? I've never heard any questions about WIL sounding like any other song! Nope. I've heard it or read it. He wasn't sued though. Perhaps it was a Lady MAdonna type lift.. Lady Madonna wasn't a lift unless you consider the boogie bass rhythm played by the left hand to be copyrightable. The melody for Lady Madonna which is played by the right hand has nothing to do with Bad Penny Blues. As for ATMP2 vs. Mind Games 1 its really not even close. Side two of ATMP has some of the best tracks on the album. Mind games is not inspiring though I like the title track. The rest are pretty sumimasen (or is it gomen?). |
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Post by JCV on Nov 29, 2010 16:11:04 GMT -5
ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2JCV 
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 29, 2010 21:33:35 GMT -5
Even though I voted for ATMP-2, I am absolutely stunned that this is so one-sided! I wrote that this was hard for me and I could have sincerely gone the other way. I mean MG-1 is getting trounced in the same manner as Ringo Sides(other than the Sides from the album RINGO) routinely do!  |
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None of these songs, save the single, are great, but none are cringeworthy, and that's an accomplishment for a Lennon album.
