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Post by joeyself on Sept 25, 2010 15:46:19 GMT -5
DOUBLE FANTASY, Side 1 vs. BAND ON THE RUN, Side 1
DOUBLE FANTASY, Side 1
1. "(Just Like) Starting Over" 3:56
2. "Kiss Kiss Kiss" 2:41
3. "Cleanup Time" 2:58
4. "Give Me Something" 1:35
5. "I'm Losing You" 3:57
6. "I'm Moving On" 2:20
7. "Beautiful Boy (Darling Boy)" 4:02
BAND ON THE RUN, Side 1
1. "Band on the Run" 5:10
2. "Jet" 4:06
3. "Bluebird" 3:22
4. "Mrs Vandebilt" 4:38
5. "Let Me Roll It" 4:47
Ok, here we go with the solo sides tourney, featuring sides from 1968 through 1980. I included everything that wasn't live (meaning no disc two of SOMETIME IN NEW YORK CITY, BANGLADESH or WINGS OVER AMERICA), aimless jamming (Sides 5 and 6 from ALL THINGS MUST PASS) and clearly experimental (ELECTRONIC SOUND and the first three Lennon/Ono releases). WONDERWALL did make the cut, largely because the one that suggested a format like this wanted it, and it rounded out the field to 64 sides.
I'm going to monitor how the discussion is going, and when it seems to have lullled, post the next match. There are 32 in the first round, so this is going to take awhile. I expect Steve or John to move the matches to the Competitions area after the discussion on one wanes. Voting will be allowed in all of the matches until a few days after the final match is put up.
For those wondering, I set up a bracket where I put each Beatles' name and an opponent, and then randomly drew what album would go in that slot. The first three brackets were like this:
John
Paul
George
Ringo
John
George
Paul
Ringo
John
Ringo
Paul
George
And I repeated it 3 times to get the first 24 matches. I only have 14 sides for Lennon and Starr, 16 for Harrison and 20 for McCartney, so the last 8 matches had a McCartney side against one of his former bandmates, but none where John, Ringo or George faced each other.
After I got the bracket set, I then randomly placed an album side in a position and that's what we have in the first round. I'll repeat the process in the second round, and then set a final bracket for our "Sweet Sixteen."
Have fun!
JcS
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Post by vectisfabber on Sept 25, 2010 16:31:42 GMT -5
BOTR1
Two strong sides first out of the starting gate. BOTR gets it by virtue of not being diluted by Yoko. Notwithstanding that I LIKE Yoko's DF songs, they are not Beatle solo songs and acccordingly, John is outnumbered 5 to 4. Both sides contain classics but, again, BOTR has the edge with BOTR, Jet and Let Me Roll It vs Starting Over and Beautiful Boy. Not the easiest of decisions. I expect this one to be close, and I also expect it to reflect Paul/John preferences and I will be very interested to read discussions and rationales.
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Post by joeyself on Sept 25, 2010 16:43:15 GMT -5
BOTR1 Two strong sides first out of the starting gate. BOTR gets it by virtue of not being diluted by Yoko. Notwithstanding that I LIKE Yoko's DF songs, they are not Beatle solo songs and acccordingly, John is outnumbered 5 to 4. Both sides contain classics but, again, BOTR has the edge with BOTR, Jet and Let Me Roll It vs Starting Over and Beautiful Boy. Not the easiest of decisions. I expect this one to be close, and I also expect it to reflect Paul/John preferences and I will be very interested to read discussions and rationales. I understand what you said about Ono's tracks on the side, and a voter can use whatever criteria he or she wishes in making the pick. However, Lennon played on her tracks, just like McCartney plays on the Denny Laine tracks on those albums. If you, or someone else, likes the Yoko tracks here or on SINYC, it may make the listening experience superior to whatever it is against. JcS |
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 25, 2010 16:46:08 GMT -5
DOUBLE FANTASY, Side 1
I played the 2000 remastered Double Fantasy several times this past week and it sounded vital, contemporary and important. I think for the first time I "get" it.
I think Paul's so-called masterpiece, Band On The Run is bloated, dated and overrated. Those damn synths sound so.....1973. I'll always have a huge soft-spot for the title-track BOTR but everything else there rather bores me these days.
I don't view this as a John/Paul thing as there are several Paul Sides that I might vote for over DF-1. BOTR-1 ain't one of them.
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Sept 25, 2010 17:59:35 GMT -5
I can remember how I felt when I first heard Band On The Run. I felt ... relieved. After the horror of Red Rose Speedway, I liked BOTR. But a month later I suddenly realized I had stopped playing it. It was BORING! Typical bloody McCartney: nothing to say, as deep as a puddle. I can remember how I felt when I first heard Double Fantasy. I felt ... disappointed. Five years of waiting - and this is what we get?! I knew it was always a possibility that John Lennon had become irrelevant (as Mind Games, parts of W & B, and R n R had indicated might be on the cards), but to have it proved with this LP. Heavens ... some of the songs were as domestic as some of Paul's ... shudder. How to vote? The only Lennon stuff I listen to from this era is I'm Losing You, but that's the Cheap Trick version which is not on DF. And Walking On Thin Ice, which is also not on the album. The only Macca stuff I listen to, ever, from BOTR is Helen Wheels, and 1985; they are on a playlist on my iPod. But those two tracks are not on Side 1. I don't want to start drinking Guinness this early in the tournament, so I'll toss a coin. There - it's BOTR1. That fellow RTP will be pleased, at any rate.  McCabe |
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Sept 25, 2010 18:06:11 GMT -5
DOUBLE FANTASY, Side 1I played the 2000 remastered Double Fantasy several times this past week and it sounded vital, contemporary and important. I think for the first time I "get" it. JSD, would you care to enlarge on that opinion of DF? I am interested that you use the words vital, contemporary and important to describe this album. I almost would have said the exact opposite ... but I may be missing an important point or two here. McCabe |
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 26, 2010 2:46:37 GMT -5
DOUBLE FANTASY, Side 1I played the 2000 remastered Double Fantasy several times this past week and it sounded vital, contemporary and important. I think for the first time I "get" it. JSD, would you care to enlarge on that opinion of DF? I am interested that you use the words vital, contemporary and important to describe this album. I almost would have said the exact opposite ... but I may be missing an important point or two here. McCabe I will start by quoting myself from another post in the Lennon Section to give my general views of DF-1: 1. "(Just Like) Starting Over": A fine start to the album. Perhaps a little too lush but I waited so long for new Lennon that it was cool to me that John went retro and how could anyone begrudge that intro with just John's naked voice then the strum of a guitar and go! 2. "Kiss Kiss Kiss" : In hindsight a decent song that must have been rather progressive for 1980. I don't know though because I was always a lover of rock and roll and hated "disco" so I don't know where this song would place in the dance music world of late 1980. They mocked it on Chicago FM and AM radio. I read a review of DF before John's murder which praised Yoko songs and rather dismissed John's and while that may have been true in NYC or L.A., that was not even close to being true in the Mid-West, like Chicago. The Yoko material was shunned here. I didn't mind it and "Kiss Kiss Kiss" was okay to me. 3. "Cleanup Time" : I liked this song a lot on first release. Or at least the verses and the story it told. I was not too critical then of some of the lines like, "no friends and yet no enemies, absolutely free." Later I would think that was weird, what's wrong with friends. And the, "center of the circle will always be our home" perhaps alluded to darker things in J & Y's life: their silly reliance on an occult that could not even keep John safe. What were they cleaning up? Before I questioned the lyrics, I fell out with the song believing it filler, I especially thought the refrain was weak. I am back to liking John's singing of the verses but still cringe when he gets to the, "clean-up time" bits. I think it is awesome that brothermichael finds it his favorite. I like to know others think it is cool so maybe I can re-examine it!  4. "Give Me Something": A good song that I like more today than then. This was the first indication to me that something was up with J & Y. The lyrics are bitter, this is no love song. Yoko is one very unsatisfied wife on this song. 5. "I'm Losing You"; This got a ton of FM airplay in Chicago even before the murder. I think the album version is too sterile in the backing and had John released the "Cheap Trick" version in 1980, he would have had a huge hit with this song, maybe not a hit single but a song all the FM stations would have played even more thus boosting album sales. Still, this is a good strong song. I made a mental note even in 1980 that like Yoko's song before it, John doesn't sound very happy. 6. "I'm Moving On": Another in the "our relationship sucks" songs that to my ears belie all the lovey-dovey stuff put out in the 1980 interviews. The lyrics are about Yoko moving on, it is too late for reconciliation. Good song and more honest than I think J & Y intended.  I think the music on the album is much more honest or frank than John and Yoko were in their highly controlled media appearances in 1980. I like that though because conflict is part of all love relationships, right guys?  Yoko's calling John "phony" would years later give me chills as that is the exact same word used by MDC in describing John and which fueled MDC's action towards John. An unfortunate coincidence. 7. "Beautiful Boy (Darling Boy)": A beautiful song that choked me up after the murder. I liked it a lot before the murder but afterwards I almost couldn't listen to it. Watch Paul listening to it on "Desert Isle Disc" and try not to cry. I then get to my opinion that you have asked about, Joseph: In responding to JoeK I went on to write: I don't want to argue though because I am seeing Double Fantasy as a great album in its entirety for perhaps the first time. That is no slam on Yoko because I always liked some of her songs more than "Clean-Up Time" and "Dear Yoko." I think DF is a complex album about a complex couple and it is not some twee "domestic album" as its critics like to sneer. It is a complex dialog between a complex man and woman. I was not thinking specifically of you, Joseph, when I wrote the bit about some critics thinking DF was a "twee domestic album" as I had in mind some media critics. I see DF-1 as the "we are at the brink of our relationship, soon to dissolve" side with John doing the oblivious, head-in-the clouds Lennon with the over-optimistic "(Just Like)Starting Over" where John wants to just sweep the couple's problems under a rug instantly and pretend like the bad stuff never happened. "Clean-Up" time is more of the "I can change, I swear!"(to quote Dylan) simplicity from John. John starts to get worried and/or see the seriousness of the situation though by "I'm Losing You" as he has gotten his ass ripped two songs in a row by Yoko who is not tolerating that optimistic, downplaying bullshit from John. "Give Me Something" and "I'm Moving On" are brutal and sung by a woman at her wits end and all but done with this man. And I am not at all convinced Yoko is even speaking to John in "Kiss Kiss Kiss" but rather venting to her other lover. How does one otherwise work out lines like: "Kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss me, love, I’m bleeding inside. It’s a long, long story to tell And I can only show you my hell." That is not stated to one's husband who is well-familiar with Yoko's story. John does the time honored last gasp marriage saver and involves the child with "Beautiful Boy (Darling Boy)." The old, "we must stay together for the children" argument. DF-2 seems to be the evolution back to redemption in the relationship with Yoko even declaring that, "hard times are over." But that is Side 2 to be saved for later. I see a complex dialog between two troubled, uncertain partners. I would agree with you on DF if the actual song lyrics were as gooey and sickly sweet as John and Yoko's 1980 interview statements but their own song lyrics betrayed the Lenono PR machine. At 18 and single I couldn't appreciate this album in 1980. At 47 and married and not knowing what the hell I got myself into, I can see where John and Yoko were coming from. I constantly am making the "(Just Like)Starting Over"-kind of pleas to my spouse and I'm getting in reply something like "I'm Moving On." John's murder delayed my understanding the dialog that was going on in Double Fantasy. I lost sight of the entire album picture and focused on just John's songs. Doing that is like trying to look at SPLHCB as individual tracks not as a whole. I think DF is more conceptual than SPLHCB ever was. |
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Post by ursamajor on Sept 26, 2010 4:51:18 GMT -5
DF-1 for me. Hate to say it but the John and Yoko combination of songs works tremendously well.
Even Yoko's stuff is great, Kiss Kiss Kiss with that orgasmic ending .. was John giving her the finger at the time ? Was this an old pre-recorded Yoko orgasm from a bed-in or a bag-in ? Yoko is one edgy chic. Then you have Give Me Something and I'm Moving On way more vital than any John or Paul song in contention. Throw in Starting Over , I'm Losing You and Beautiful Boy and I think J&Y have Paul covered here.
BOTR-1 has the brilliant title track and the brilliant Jet. The other tracks are good but not ground breaking. Let Me Roll It is a Lennon influence so it loses points straight away. The riff is Cold Turkey reworked and the lyrics are from George Harrison's I'd Have You Anytime. Also the live version is much better and has a solo, this version could have used a solo.
Bluebird and Mrs Vanderbilt have not aged well and are a little boring nowadays.
So there you have it DF-1 for me.
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Post by winstonoboogie on Sept 26, 2010 9:34:20 GMT -5
BOTR - 1 for me, for similar reasons to those outline by vectis.
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Post by coachbk on Sept 26, 2010 12:04:33 GMT -5
This is one where it seems unfortunate to be a first round matchup because both sides are strong, but since I have to choose, it is really no contest. BAND ON THE RUN side 1 gets my vote.
The title track is a musical masterpiece and "Jet" is a fantastic rocker. "Mrs. Vanderbilt" just oozes confidence and energy and lyrically it well sums up where Paul was at during this stage. "Bluebird" is pleasant and "Let Me Roll It" has it's moments, though it drags a bit.
DOUBLE FANTASY does have "Beautiful Boy" (probably in my top 3 Lennon solo songs) and the enjoyable "(Just Like) Starting Over", but "I'm Losing You" rocks far more with Cheap Trick on LENNON ANTHOLOGY than this rather tame version and "Cleanup Time" is far weaker than anything on BOTR. And while the rest is "good" Yoko-it is still Yoko and doesn't stand up to Paul.
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Post by joeyself on Sept 26, 2010 14:51:56 GMT -5
Coach, this is one of just a few first round matches that I wouldn't have done if I'd been doing it by hand. I mean, if I'd been doing it, BOTR would have seen something like SINYC 2 or BAD BOY 1 in the first round, but I didn't see this one as SO tough I needed to step in and jiggle the brackets.
As for me, I join the majority in picking BOTR 1, and easily. I don't like Yoko's stuff being shuffled in with John's; a DF with his contributions on one side and hers on the other would have made for a more pleasing listening experience for me. Since it's not that way, I used my "which side would I most like to listen to from start to finish" measure, and BOTR 1 wins easily.
JcS
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Sept 26, 2010 15:27:17 GMT -5
-------------------------------- John's murder delayed my understanding the dialog that was going on in Double Fantasy. I lost sight of the entire album picture and focused on just John's songs. Doing that is like trying to look at SPLHCB as individual tracks not as a whole. I think DF is more conceptual than SPLHCB ever was. Thanks for taking the time & trouble to construct that post, John. There was much food for thought there, as I'm sure everyone who reads it will agree. But what you said at the end (quoted above) was an especially important insight. It is easy to look on this album as shallow if you only focus on John's songs. It is a long long time since I listened to DF from start to finish, totally. It is time to revisit! |
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 26, 2010 21:04:28 GMT -5
-------------------------------- John's murder delayed my understanding the dialog that was going on in Double Fantasy. I lost sight of the entire album picture and focused on just John's songs. Doing that is like trying to look at SPLHCB as individual tracks not as a whole. I think DF is more conceptual than SPLHCB ever was. Thanks for taking the time & trouble to construct that post, John. There was much food for thought there, as I'm sure everyone who reads it will agree. But what you said at the end (quoted above) was an especially important insight. It is easy to look on this album as shallow if you only focus on John's songs. It is a long long time since I listened to DF from start to finish, totally. It is time to revisit! I was long-winded for sure so thank you for being gentle, McCabe! That is the danger of having time on my hands(all of early Sunday morning) and typing that while listening to McCartney's Memory Almost Full repeatedly instead of the damn album I was writing about! |
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Post by joeyself on Sept 26, 2010 22:49:48 GMT -5
-------------------------------- John's murder delayed my understanding the dialog that was going on in Double Fantasy. I lost sight of the entire album picture and focused on just John's songs. Doing that is like trying to look at SPLHCB as individual tracks not as a whole. I think DF is more conceptual than SPLHCB ever was. Thanks for taking the time & trouble to construct that post, John. There was much food for thought there, as I'm sure everyone who reads it will agree. But what you said at the end (quoted above) was an especially important insight. It is easy to look on this album as shallow if you only focus on John's songs. It is a long long time since I listened to DF from start to finish, totally. It is time to revisit! Your last sentence is the reason I do these games; I couldn't really care less what actually wins--it doesn't change MY opinion that Side X got more votes than Side Y--but the rediscovery of the music, and the comments of those doing the same, that's what it's all about. Well, that, and the Hokey Pokey, I guess. JcS |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2010 7:16:13 GMT -5
BOTR 1 for me...
This side has some classic McCartney solo tracks that went on to become staple concert songs when Macca was touring in the 70's.
This was prior to him becoming a 1 man Beatles Greatest Hits show and repeating that act ad nauseam....tour after tour...
Double Fantasy starts off in blaze of glory with Starting Over but then plummets downhill quite steeply until it levels out with Beautiful Boy.
Due to the aftermath of it's release it was never critiqued truly as a record made by an artist deeply out of form.....
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 27, 2010 7:31:46 GMT -5
Due to the aftermath of it's release it was never critiqued truly as a record made by an artist deeply out of form..... Sure it was. Before the murder. |
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Post by scousette on Sept 27, 2010 11:03:53 GMT -5
BOTR, Side 1
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JCV
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Post by JCV on Sept 27, 2010 12:11:59 GMT -5
DOUBLE FANTASY, Side 1I think Paul's so-called masterpiece, Band On The Run is bloated, dated and overrated. Those damn synths sound so.....1973. I'll always have a huge soft-spot for the title-track BOTR but everything else there rather bores me these days. Pah-leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeassseeeeeeee, JSD. Paul ROCKS on this album, and you know it.  Well, "Bluebird" doesn't exactly ROCK, but it's an enjoyable enough song. Paul played four out of these five songs in concert and he ROCKED on every one of them. So, obviously, I picked BAND ON THE RUN, Side 1, but I do love "Double Fantasy" a lot. It's just not ROCKIN' like Paul's BOTR, and that's what I like.  JCV |
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Post by joeyself on Sept 27, 2010 13:24:09 GMT -5
Due to the aftermath of it's release it was never critiqued truly as a record made by an artist deeply out of form..... Sure it was. Before the murder. I could look--and will if you don't point me in that direction: Do you know of any reviews available online that weren't clouded by the homicide? JcS |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 27, 2010 13:47:07 GMT -5
Sure it was. Before the murder. I could look--and will if you don't point me in that direction: Do you know of any reviews available online that weren't clouded by the homicide? JcS I haven't searched. I just recall reading some of 'em in 1980. |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 27, 2010 13:48:14 GMT -5
This may surprise some, but I voted for BOTR, Side 1. How could it be otherwise? This is one of Paul's best albums.
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Post by acebackwords on Sept 27, 2010 17:08:41 GMT -5
Gotta vote for Band on the Run (even though I like the other side two better). Not really a fair match, matching one of Macca's best solo records with one of Lennon's average solo records. Still, I'm surprised its Macca in a landslide.
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Post by coachbk on Sept 27, 2010 20:48:57 GMT -5
Sure it was. Before the murder. I could look--and will if you don't point me in that direction: Do you know of any reviews available online that weren't clouded by the homicide? JcS I remember the review in our local Sunday newspaper was titled, JOHN IS BACK BUT "OH-NO" LOOK WHO'S WITH HIM The review was particularly harsh on Yoko, but John wasn't spared as it criticized him for spouting the sort of domestic bliss that he (Lennon) had so criticized in Paul back in the days of RAM. I actually wrote a letter to the editor in response talking about how in hindsight, RAM was unjustly trounced by critics. That it anticipated the whole "back to nature" type of thing and was musically brilliant. John was simply experiencing some of the same feelings Paul had 10 or so years later, but that this album effectively expressed those feelings in John's own style. I also said I felt the Yoko tracks were quite listenable, though I agreed I would have preferred more of a 2 or 3-1 John to Yoko ratio rather than 50/50. The letter was never printed as far as I know. All other reviews I read praised the album. |
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 27, 2010 21:07:21 GMT -5
DOUBLE FANTASY, Side 1I think Paul's so-called masterpiece, Band On The Run is bloated, dated and overrated. Those damn synths sound so.....1973. I'll always have a huge soft-spot for the title-track BOTR but everything else there rather bores me these days. Pah-leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeassseeeeeeee, JSD. Paul ROCKS on this album, and you know it. Well, "Bluebird" doesn't exactly ROCK, but it's an enjoyable enough song. Paul played four out of these five songs in concert and he ROCKED on every one of them. So, obviously, I picked BAND ON THE RUN, Side 1, but I do love "Double Fantasy" a lot. It's just not ROCKIN' like Paul's BOTR, and that's what I like. JCV Why do I feel like I've just been taken to the proverbial woodshed? ursamajor and I stand defiant, unrepentant! |
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Post by stavros on Sept 28, 2010 14:12:57 GMT -5
I've always liked John's songs on DF and 'Starting Over' was actually very retro when it was first released. But it is was also great to hear the old master back and sounding so positive back in 1980. 'I'm Losing You' is his other stand out on this album side. Whilst 'Beautiful Boy' is perhaps John's finest moment at copying Paul's songwriting style. Yoko's stuff just spoils the album for me. I understand there was a concept to it but . Although I'll grant "Kiss, Kiss, Kiss" is very similar to a big hit over here in the UK around that time "Lucky Number" by Lene Lovich. So it sounded very contemporary and her tuneless vocal delivery actually sort of suits that song. After that she slowly but surely strangles the album. So it has to be BOTR1 for me. Superb opening two tracks and the rest of the side holds together well enough to beat DF1. And Linda is buried deep in the mix |
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Sept 28, 2010 18:36:44 GMT -5
I can remember how I felt when I first heard Band On The Run. I felt ... relieved. After the horror of Red Rose Speedway, I liked BOTR. But a month later I suddenly realized I had stopped playing it. It was BORING! Typical bloody McCartney: nothing to say, as deep as a puddle. I can remember how I felt when I first heard Double Fantasy. I felt ... disappointed. Five years of waiting - and this is what we get?! I knew it was always a possibility that John Lennon had become irrelevant (as Mind Games, parts of W & B, and R n R had indicated might be on the cards), but to have it proved with this LP. Heavens ... some of the songs were as domestic as some of Paul's ... shudder. How to vote? The only Lennon stuff I listen to from this era is I'm Losing You, but that's the Cheap Trick version which is not on DF. And Walking On Thin Ice, which is also not on the album. The only Macca stuff I listen to, ever, from BOTR is Helen Wheels, and 1985; they are on a playlist on my iPod. But those two tracks are not on Side 1. I don't want to start drinking Guinness this early in the tournament, so I'll toss a coin. There - it's BOTR1. That fellow RTP will be pleased, at any rate. McCabe McCabe you are fair minded. Of course, I think you are limiting your view of Macca's solo career to too few choices. Maybe the released material just isn't your style. He has so much good unreleased material from 1973--Jazz Street and Night Out, for example. But that's off topic. Yes I chose BOTR1 as most of you would guess. When DF came out, I like you McCabe, was disappointed. More recently I have come to appreciate it more than when it was first released. You are right, the Cheap Trick backed I'm Losing You and Walking on Thin Ice with John's great guitar backing blow the rest of the album away. Maybe it would have been a new direction for John. The problem with DF is not so much the songs (excluding Yoko's which have some problems for me) as it is the backing band which is soft and lethargic on most tracks that need more energy. I wish John would have gone more for the brass ring in that sense on most of his post-Beatles albums. You think a love songs like Bluebird is as deep as a puddle. I have more respect for love songs--not "silly" ones of course. I think Let Me Roll It is a tribute to John in style and theme. It is a track John could have recorded. Mrs. Vandebilt certainly has a message-what's the use of worrying about material things. Its not important trying to keep up with your rich neighbors. And Paul lived a relatively simple life for a rock star anyway. As for Band on the Run and Jet, they may be just "story" songs (though Jet has some autobiographical lines), but they are among the best tracks of the decade. To this day they resonate when played in concert or anywhere else. |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 29, 2010 5:44:19 GMT -5
You are right, the Cheap Trick backed I'm Losing You and Walking on Thin Ice with John's great guitar backing blow the rest of the album away. So there's a "right" here? I don't like the Cheap Trick version of I'M LOSING YOU, though I'm in the minority. But there's no 'right and wrong' here, let's not be ridiculous. I do love WALKING ON THIN ICE. I can't agree with that. I did always like the sound of the players, even back on Day One. |
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 29, 2010 9:38:12 GMT -5
Double Fantasy was clearly the slickest, most polished of the Lennon and Lennon-Ono solo albums. It reminds me of how slick and polished Abbey Road sounds as that one is surrounded by the White Album and Let It Be.
I've felt in the past that DF was too sanitized, too slick and I particularly felt that way after hearing the "Cheap Trick" version of "I'm Losing You." I felt these studio musicians were too good and in the process lost some heart and soul.
My recent listens though of the 2000 remaster caused me to rethink that: sonically I thought the playing and singing were fantastic. I was pleasantly surprised. Then again, I've learned to embrace the whole album as one and not just focus so much on John's songs in light of his murder. And for the record as I stated above, that was never a slam on Yoko's material because I liked it. She was still alive though and I figured I had plenty of time to cherish it.
John's DF songs to me were like the Ring in Lord Of The Rings and like Gollum, I became possessive, obsessed with them.
I cannot wait for the stripped down version of DF! Just John's voice "as nature intended." Will Yoko's songs be stripped down too? I haven't read.
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Post by mikev on Sept 29, 2010 10:18:15 GMT -5
Double Fantasy was clearly the slickest, most polished of the Lennon and Lennon-Ono solo albums. It reminds me of how slick and polished Abbey Road sounds as that one is surrounded by the White Album and Let It Be. I've felt in the past that DF was too sanitized, too slick and I particularly felt that way after hearing the "Cheap Trick" version of "I'm Losing You." I felt these studio musicians were too good and in the process lost some heart and soul. My recent listens though of the 2000 remaster caused me to rethink that: sonically I thought the playing and singing were fantastic. I was pleasantly surprised. Then again, I've learned to embrace the whole album as one and not just focus so much on John's songs in light of his murder. And for the record as I stated above, that was never a slam on Yoko's material because I liked it. She was still alive though and I figured I had plenty of time to cherish it. John's DF songs to me were like the Ring in Lord Of The Rings and like Gollum, I became possessive, obsessed with them. I cannot wait for the stripped down version of DF! Just John's voice "as nature intended." Will Yoko's songs be stripped down too? I haven't read. I was wondering that myself. If it is a whole CD, I can't imagine it just being John's songs. But she could have made it interesting by doing that for John's DF and Milk and Honey work. M & H however is unfinished live studio recordings like Menlove Ave, so not sure how much more stripped down they could be. |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 29, 2010 12:43:03 GMT -5
I cannot wait for the stripped down version of DF! Just John's voice "as nature intended." Will Yoko's songs be stripped down too? I haven't read. Yes, you could hear the samples with both John's and Yoko's songs. And I still crap all over the idea of releasing this album. Thumbs Down, Yoko. |
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I think the music on the album is much more honest or frank than John and Yoko were in their highly controlled media appearances in 1980. I like that though because conflict is part of all love relationships, right guys? 
Yoko's calling John "phony" would years later give me chills as that is the exact same word used by MDC in describing John and which fueled MDC's action towards John. An unfortunate coincidence. 
Well, "Bluebird" doesn't exactly ROCK, but it's an enjoyable enough song. Paul played four out of these five songs in concert and he ROCKED on every one of them. 
