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Post by joeyself on Aug 30, 2010 22:32:48 GMT -5
And so, the final comes down to the two sides released in 1966. Choose which you believe to be the stronger of the two.
REVOLVER, Side 1
"Taxman" 2:39 "Eleanor Rigby" 2:08 "I'm Only Sleeping" 3:02 "Love You To" 3:01 "Here, There and Everywhere" 2:26 "Yellow Submarine" 2:40 "She Said She Said" 2:37
REVOLVER, Side 2
Good Day Sunshine 2:10 And Your Bird Can Sing 2:02 For No One 2:02 Doctor Robert 2:15 I Want To Tell You 2:30 Got To Get You Into My Life 2:31 Tomorrow Never Knows 2:57
As an added bonus, I'll hand count the votes for the bronze medal between SGT. PEPPER 1 and ABBEY ROAD 2.
And for yet an extra discussion question, if you think we've gotten it wrong here, what would your personal two favorites be?
Thanks to all that played and commented. I've enjoyed hosting this here.
JcS
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Aug 30, 2010 23:56:42 GMT -5
And for yet an extra discussion question, if you think we've gotten it wrong here, what would your personal two favorites be? No, no. I think we have gotten it exactly right. The Beatles' REVOLVER is their creative masterpiece. It is only right that its sides go "head to head". It will need a lot of Guinness to help the cogitations on this. But deep down I know what the better side is ... ... I think. I started off commenting how aritificial a "competition" is, but have thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing. Of course, it is the discussion that entertains. I don't care what people like - but I want to know why they like it. Thanks for the organization, Mr Self. McCabe
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Aug 30, 2010 23:57:17 GMT -5
First Guinness finished, btw. No closer to a vote.
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wooltonian
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Post by wooltonian on Aug 31, 2010 2:24:03 GMT -5
Revolver - 2
Lots of random thoughts...
I've been away for a bit and am genuinely pleased that Abbey Road - 2 has fallen by the wayside during my travels. Over-slick, over-cobbled together, not their most honest piece of work and the product of a disintegrating band. If the long track et al had carried the day in this competition I would have been genuinely disgruntled. Sorry to start on a negative but really glad the two sides we're looking at here (along with Pepper - 1, IMO) are two of the best three Beatles sides of music.
I've chosen Revolver side two for my winning side because it is virtually flawless (and it doesn't contain 'Yellow submarine' which for all its many qualities is a 'skip track' for me these days). Add to that its amazing diversity and you have something really special. People talk about the White Album being diverse -- well it is, but it doesn't have the strength of songwriting and the cohesive group ethic that really pulls this album together and elevates it to 'masterpiece' status. 'Revolver' is every bit as stunningly diverse as the White Album and its songs are far stronger.
Just scanning through the track listing for 'Revolver' I was struck by how short the tracks are. It is the most compelling advert I can think of for brevity and capturing the essence of a song against padding, bombast and over-production. The Beatles got it spot on with 'Revolver' in all respects and in every detail.
A worthy winner from the greatest band of all time whichever side prevails.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2010 5:19:35 GMT -5
REVOLVER, Side 2 I am surprised it's an all Revolver shootout
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Post by joeyself on Aug 31, 2010 8:08:59 GMT -5
As an added bonus, I'll hand count the votes for the bronze medal between SGT. PEPPER 1 and ABBEY ROAD 2. To be clearer, if someone wants to vote in the 3rd place battle between SP 1 and AR 2, please state your preference in the note where you announce your pick in the final match. JcS
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Post by coachbk on Aug 31, 2010 8:51:25 GMT -5
I voted for REVOLVER side 2. It is not only the best Beatles side, but the best by anyone. "Tomorrow Never Knows" and "For No One" are the top two in my Beatles song list as well and the others are all excellent as too (as is nearly everything on side 1) I think we got it exactly right, not only with the top two, but also the other two in the semi-final. My 3rd place vote goes to SGT PEPPER side 1, by a slim margin.
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 31, 2010 9:26:03 GMT -5
REVOLVER, Side 2
Just barely. "And Your Bird Can Sing," "For No One" and "Tomorrow Never Knows" tip the scales for me towards Side 2.
I came into this tourney hoping for this result of Revolver vs. Revolver but now that it is here, I am rather subdued about it.
Surprises to myself along the way were: 1. SPLHCB-1 made a huge impression on me looking at it standing alone. Sure, I know it like the back of my hand but it shined for me in this tourney even though I voted against it when it counted.
2. The Beatles-3: Wow, this Side really rocks and looking at it, again standing alone, it really made an impression on me. Sure, I knew TB-1 was strong and as I argued in the very first round, I think TB-4 includes the most important music ever made by The Beatles because it holds two of the three parts of The Revolution Trilogy, a foreboding on the future of mankind. We are doomed and The Beatles envision it on TB-4.
3. The overall strength of HELP!. No longer the ugly half-sister to AHDN. It gives major hints of the change about to come.
4. The re-emergence to me of the aforementioned AHDN. In recent years this one had fallen in my book but this tourney made me re-examine it Side by separate Side and I rediscovered the joy of it.
5. When forced to analyze by Sides, Abbey Road kind of took a hit with me. Not to worry, I still love it for its overall slickness, "Come Together" and the two wonderful George songs but it is that same slickness that highlights the cracks in it, however so hairline.
Other albums like Rubber Soul didn't surprise me one way or the other because I already have great respect and love for them.
Thank you JoeyCSelf for running a wonderful tourney that brought out good discussion. And to Winston O'Boogie, I bet if we ask Steve M. nicely, he'll grant a full pardon to the losing Sides here so we can once again play them and enjoy them. I know that you were concerned about that! ;D
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Post by scousette on Aug 31, 2010 10:19:02 GMT -5
REVOLVER, Side 2
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Post by vectisfabber on Aug 31, 2010 10:41:41 GMT -5
Side 1.
I'm disappointed - I have never cared for Tomorrow Never Knows and still don't, I don't like I Want To Tell You's deliberate dissonances, one of George's clumsiest songs, and While there is stuff I like in Dr Robert, it is still far from one of my favourite tracks. Ther are at least a dozen sides I like more than Revolver 2.
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JCV
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Post by JCV on Aug 31, 2010 11:55:29 GMT -5
REVOLVER, Side 1Just barely. Why? Because someone has to win. Third place for me goes to ABBEY ROAD 2 just barely, again. ;D JCV
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Aug 31, 2010 15:21:56 GMT -5
Can I vote half-and-half?
I think Side 1 Tracks 1, 2, 3, 4 is the best sequence of Fab songs, on all their albums. (Yes, even 4 Love You To which - stop me if you've heard this before - has a great tune, very fine lyrics, and excellent arrangement.) The spell is broken a little - only a little - by Here There & Everywhere. Yellow Submarine is a cunning, ambiguous little song, which I don't believe was written as a children's sing-along. I think it's a song of retreat, and shut-out-the world.
I think Side 2 has two superb songs: For No One (Macca's best love song, by a country mile: it's definitely not a silly love song; where did he get sidetracked into writing silly ones?) and Tomorrow Never Knows, one of John Lennon's great psychedelic masterpieces - and wonderfully, a true group recording effort. The rest of side 2 is a very fine set of songs.
Since I can't vote half-and-half ...I have to decide, and ...
It's that superb opening quartet of songs that tip the balance for me: Revolver, Side 1 is their very very best.
McCabe
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Aug 31, 2010 15:23:05 GMT -5
As an added bonus, I'll hand count the votes for the bronze medal between SGT. PEPPER 1 and ABBEY ROAD 2. To be clearer, if someone wants to vote in the 3rd place battle between SP 1 and AR 2, please state your preference in the note where you announce your pick in the final match. JcS For third place ... Pepper Side 1 for me.
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 31, 2010 15:48:51 GMT -5
As an added bonus, I'll hand count the votes for the bronze medal between SGT. PEPPER 1 and ABBEY ROAD 2. Good. I can now cast a vote for 3rd place to: SPLHCB-1
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Post by stavros on Aug 31, 2010 16:05:30 GMT -5
Not disappointed at all with the final. I think Revolver carries on where Rubber Soul left off. These two albums (and the singles from that time) are still very much the work of the band and not 4 individuals. Even George gets 3 songs on one disc !!! The sum of the parts is very much the greater. Although I love Abbey Road for the lush production , Pepper and MMT for their psychedelic era imagery , the Beatles for being a quirky solo collection with the other Beatles as session men and even Let it Be because it simply isn't anywhere near being as bad an album as people think. Now which side? Not so easy. In fact "Yellow Submarine" is really no better or worse than the "Frog Chorus". "Taxman", "Eleanor Rigby" "There There & Everywhere" - classics But side 2 gets my vote (and very marginally) for the fact that it has a stronger hand with Good Day Sunshine And Your Bird Can Sing For No One Got To Get You Into My Life Tomorrow Never Knows Good competition/debate Will we now have one for the solo albums ?
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Post by acebackwords on Aug 31, 2010 17:34:46 GMT -5
Wow, I'm really surprised that Revolver copped both sides. Its my fave thats for sure. And I gotta go with the side with "Tomorrow Never Knows." That song is the sound of American society just on the verge of spinning like a top off into the ozones.
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Post by vectisfabber on Aug 31, 2010 18:36:48 GMT -5
That song is the sound of American society just on the verge of spinning like a top off into the ozones. Pardon?
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Post by acebackwords on Aug 31, 2010 19:31:22 GMT -5
That song is the sound of American society just on the verge of spinning like a top off into the ozones. Pardon? Well, as Albert Goldman put it: "'Tomorrow Never Knows' gesticulates awesomely towards the pharmacological future." Or something like that.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Aug 31, 2010 23:25:17 GMT -5
As an added bonus, I'll hand count the votes for the bronze medal between SGT. PEPPER 1 and ABBEY ROAD 2. Good. I can now cast a vote for 3rd place to: SPLHCB-1 TROUBLE MAKER!
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wooltonian
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Post by wooltonian on Sept 1, 2010 2:22:22 GMT -5
Third place to Pepper - side 1. A very worthy bronze.
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 1, 2010 8:36:42 GMT -5
Good. I can now cast a vote for 3rd place to: SPLHCB-1 TROUBLE MAKER!LOL. Are you an AR-2 guy, Steve? I really rediscovered SPLHCB-1 through this tourney but if it faced Revolver 1 or 2, I couldn't vote for it. I am happy to vote for it for Bronze.
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Post by joeyself on Sept 1, 2010 16:28:59 GMT -5
Good competition/debate Will we now have one for the solo albums ? I don't know that there'd be enough interest; we had around 25 in some of the first round matches, but toward the end, we'll be lucky to get 15 players. And that's for the main catalog; I'd suspect that of J,P or G (I'm not doing Ringo) would be of less interest to the general populace here. I say that not to chide anyone--if someone doesn't want to play, there's no requirement that they do so--but for something like a tournament, I prefer a larger group from which to get comments and a voting sample. I'll think about it... JcS
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Post by joeyself on Sept 1, 2010 21:18:35 GMT -5
One other thing that I've thought of is a variation on what we just did, using either the American albums up through REVOLVER, I guess, and including HEY JUDE and MMT, or maybe figuring out what is the greatest side of the compilations (A COLLECTION OF BEATLE OLDIES, HEY JUDE, Red and Blue, ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC, LOVE SONGS, etc.)
I'm still mulling it, but welcome suggestions/input.
JcS
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Post by joeyself on Sept 2, 2010 13:10:22 GMT -5
I voted against REV 1 in the match against AR 2, and I voted for REV 2 as it faced SP 1, so this one should be easy, right? Right?
Well, easy enough. I adore "I'm Only Sleeping" and think the balance of the side, save "Love You To" and "She Said She Said' are all wonderful. But that's the rub--there are no "save..." moments on Side 2. "Dr. Robert" is as weak as it gets, and even that wouldn't cause me to get out of my seat to move the needle/end the side early. "For No One" is in my top 3 Beatle songs, and it gets my vote.
Now, for the discussion question. My favorite two sides in this tourney were MMT 2 and AHDN 1 (Had I been asked this a few years ago, I would have picked TB 1 instead of AHDN 1 as the second choice). Yeah, I know, it's not really fair, because MMT 2 is just a collection of 1967 singles, but it is still my favorite of all.
I've said, perhaps on the forerunner of this board, that my favorite Beatle album is PAST MASTERS 2, unless that doesn't count, in which case I'll take MMT, unless that doesn't count, in which case I'll take REVOLVER. But AHDN has really moved up my personal charts toward the top.
JcS
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 2, 2010 13:48:04 GMT -5
Now, for the discussion question. My favorite two sides in this tourney were MMT 2 and AHDN 1 (Had I been asked this a few years ago, I would have picked TB 1 instead of AHDN 1 as the second choice). Yeah, I know, it's not really fair, because MMT 2 is just a collection of 1967 singles, but it is still my favorite of all. I've said, perhaps on the forerunner of this board, that my favorite Beatle album is PAST MASTERS 2, unless that doesn't count, in which case I'll take MMT, unless that doesn't count, in which case I'll take REVOLVER. But AHDN has really moved up my personal charts toward the top. JcS I forgot the discussion question! Okay, I am very pleased that R-1 is pitted against R-2 but I might say(as of right now): 1. R-2 2. TB-3(it rocks, man!) 3. SPLHCB-1 4. R-1. AHDN 1 & 2 has shot up my chart and Help stays burning strong. AHDN may have leaped into my old AR spot but I'll always have a soft spot for that swan song album.
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Post by acebackwords on Sept 2, 2010 15:14:45 GMT -5
Its interesting to me that "Tomorrow Never Knows" was the first song recorded at the Revolver sessions, but placed as the last track on the album. It was sort of an advance warning of the Sgt Pepper sensation that was about to hit mainstream America. I think you could argue that "Tomorrow Never Knows" was the pivotal song where the Beatles shifted in the minds of America from their Fab Four image to the hippie weirdos they would become. Those that are old enough to remember when that song first came out can attest to how weird and startling it was to hear that sound coming from the Beatles. If I'm not mistaken, aside from maybe an obscure B side like "Rain", it was the first Beatles song with weirdly distorted vocals. As well as the first song that couldn't by any stretch of the imagination fit into the parameters of "pop music."
George Martin said that when Lennon first brought the song into the studio he "earnestly" sang it while playing acoustic guitar. One of the first innovations was that the whole song was all in one chord originally, which the other Beatles thought was a magnificent idea. Another example of the Beatles amazing originality as songwriters -- previous that had strived to come up with new and innovative chord progressions -- its just amazing how the Beatles could always expand as far as they could in one direction, and then immediately reverse their tracks and go to the exact opposite extreme.
Lennon once called "Tomorrow Never Knows" "the first acid hymn" or something like that. Its a weird and powerful song that effected a LOT of people in all sorts of different ways. As McCartney said about LSD: "It changes the way you think and you're never the same again."
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Post by coachbk on Sept 2, 2010 19:44:34 GMT -5
[quote author=acebackwords Lennon once called "Tomorrow Never Knows" "the first acid hymn" or something like that. Its a weird and powerful song that effected a LOT of people in all sorts of different ways. As McCartney said about LSD: "It changes the way you think and you're never the same again."[/quote]
And yet I have never taken acid (heck I've never even smoked pot) and "Tomorrow Never Knows" is my favorite Beatles song. I've always said about psychedelic music (which I generally really enjoy) that listening to it is a safe way to experience different sensations. I know that the first time I heard it, it had a profound effect on me and I continue to be amazed at what a powerful and creative song it is.
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Post by joeyself on Sept 3, 2010 14:17:29 GMT -5
Good competition/debate Will we now have one for the solo albums ? A show of hands, please: Who will take part in a solo tourney of this nature for John? Paul? George? I ask it that way because some may be willing to do one or two, but not all three. JcS
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Post by acebackwords on Sept 3, 2010 15:18:33 GMT -5
Great job with the playoff, Joeyself. That was a lot of fun. It was a great format to hear everyone reviewing their fave and least fave Beatles songs.
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Sept 3, 2010 15:43:35 GMT -5
Good competition/debate Will we now have one for the solo albums ? A show of hands, please: Who will take part in a solo tourney of this nature for John? Paul? George? I ask it that way because some may be willing to do one or two, but not all three. JcS Count me in for John and George. But please not Paul: most of his solo stuff leaves me cold.
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