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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2012 6:28:14 GMT -5
Comment and/or vote on this song
4=Great 3=Good 2=Average 1=Crap
"Big Boys Bickering" - Paul McCartney (Extra Track 1992)
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2012 6:32:21 GMT -5
3 -- "Good". This is a very interesting track to me where Paul does a political song that sounds nice. He also takes a cue from John Lennon by daring to put the "F Bomb" into the song (though Paul wasn't quite brave enough to issue the song on his OFF THE GROUND album and instead relegated it to an EP CD for "Hope of Deliverance").
I first heard this song on 12/10/92 when I saw Paul premiere it live in NY at the "MTV Up Close" taping.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 6:34:26 GMT -5
And the lyrics are......
Big boys bickering, That's what they're doin' ev'ryday. Big boys bickering, Fuckin' it up for ev'ryone, ev'ryone.
Guess while they're betting on the track, They're tryin' to win your money back. All of the taxes that you paid, Went to fund the masquerade.
Big boys bickering, That's what they're doin' all the day. Big boys bickering, Fuckin' it up in ev'ry way, ev'ry way.
We stand here waiting Underneath the tower block. Who will win and who will lose? Which way do the big boys choose? Which of us will never know what goes on?
Oo -
Who will win, who will lose?
So while they argue through the night, Shakin' their sticks of dynamite, Babies are dying through the day, They wanna blow us all away.
Big boys bickering, And so the game goes on and on. Big boys bickering, Fucking it up for ev'ryone, ev'ryone, For ev'ryone, for ev'ryone, for ev'ryone, For ev'ryone, ev'ryone.
Fucking it up for ev'ryone, (fuckin' it up for ev'ryone) Fucking it up for ev'ryone, Ev'ryone, ev'ryone, Ev'ry, ev'ry, ev'ry, ev'ry, ev'ryone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 6:36:23 GMT -5
I thought it was one of the better songs from the Off The Ground era...that's a 3 for me.
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Post by mikev on Mar 21, 2012 8:17:57 GMT -5
Comment and/or vote on this song 4=Great 3=Good 2=Average 1=Crap "Big Boys Bickering" - Paul McCartney (Extra Track 1992) I'll give it a 3, but the F bombs don't help it or hurt it. I bought the EP just for the "B" sides. At least during that period he was loading up the EP CDs with unreleased material.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 21, 2012 8:41:51 GMT -5
I give it a 2.5 because I really see it between average and good. I think the profanity was kind of gratuitous, Macca wanting to puff his chest out and I say that because just who the heck is he talking about and over what issue(s)?
Just as John was too topical, too micro-issue on STNYC, this is too vague to be effective for me.
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Post by coachbk on Mar 21, 2012 8:46:06 GMT -5
I was debating between a 2 and a 3 and then read JSD's post. That's really about where I lie. If I had to choose one or the other I'd go with a 2. The tune doesn't really jump out at me enough to nudge it to a 3.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 21, 2012 10:57:56 GMT -5
I'd give it a 3+ if that's allowed. My favorite line: "All of the taxes that you paid went to fund the masquerade." I love that Paul is a fiscal conservative like me. He talked about it in his latest Rolling Stone interveiw. Nice tune well executed.
If you feel as strongly as I do about the govermnent and what a bunch of f-ups they are, the f-bomb is not gratuitous at all. I think the point Paul is making is a perfect reason to let it rip.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 21, 2012 11:07:29 GMT -5
I'd give it a 3+ if that's allowed. My favorite line: "All of the taxes that you paid went to fund the masquerade." I love that Paul is a fiscal conservative like me. He talked about it in his latest Rolling Stone interveiw. Nice tune well executed. If you feel as strongly as I do about the govermnent and what a bunch of f-ups they are, the f-bomb is not gratuitous at all. I think the point Paul is making is a perfect reason to let it rip. But what is Paul objecting to, RTP? Is he mad that tax dollars went to the military or is he mad that tax dollars went to welfare and other social entitlements? I somehow think Paul is not as conservative as you are! I think Paul wants this "protest song" to appeal to everyone, let them think it is aimed at Left and Right causes! I gave it a 2.5 so I like it more than I dislike it but I just wish it stood for something slightly more specific that a broad complaint.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 21, 2012 11:09:26 GMT -5
I thought it was one of the better songs from the Off The Ground era...that's a 3 for me. Speaking of that era Paul had several great "extra tracks" that appeared on his singles that were better than some of the songs on the album. Here is a revamped Hope Of Deliverance: 1. Hope of Deliverance 2. Keep Coming Back To Love (this is a standout) 3. I Can't Imagine 4. Big Boys Bickering 5. Style Style 6. Sweet Sweet Memories 7. Kicked Around No More 8. Long Leather Coat 9. Looking For Changes 10. Peace In the Neighborhood 11. The Lovers That Never Were 12. Off The Ground (great performance on 1993 MTV Close Up) 13. Mistress and Maid 14. C'Mon People Bonus: 15. Golden Earth Girl (instrumental) Beautiful melody-lyrics not as good) That's three politically themed songs (4 if you count Peace). This could be Paul's Sometime in NYC. The other songs would have been better as b-sides. I never liked Get Out Of My Way for example--didn't like Paul's voice on that one.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2012 11:17:24 GMT -5
By the way, adding a "+" or ".5" is cool with me
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Post by mikev on Mar 21, 2012 11:20:11 GMT -5
I thought it was one of the better songs from the Off The Ground era...that's a 3 for me. Speaking of that era Paul had several great "extra tracks" that appeared on his singles that were better than some of the songs on the album. Here is a revamped Hope Of Deliverance: 1. Hope of Deliverance 2. Keep Coming Back To Love (this is a standout) 3. I Can't Imagine 4. Big Boys Bickering 5. Style Style 6. Sweet Sweet Memories 7. Kicked Around No More 8. Long Leather Coat 9. Looking For Changes 10. Peace In the Neighborhood 11. The Lovers That Never Were 12. Off The Ground (great performance on 1993 MTV Close Up) 13. Mistress and Maid 14. C'Mon People Bonus: 15. Golden Earth Girl (instrumental) Beautiful melody-lyrics not as good) That's three politically themed songs (4 if you count Peace). This could be Paul's Sometime in NYC. The other songs would have been better as b-sides. I never liked Get Out Of My Way for example--didn't like Paul's voice on that one. The Lovers That Never Were was the best track on the LP IMO. Probably a top five all time Paul solo for me, of course Elvis co-wrote it.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2012 11:27:12 GMT -5
I love the OFF THE GROUND album, Mike, but for me "The Lovers That Never Were" was my least favorite!
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 21, 2012 12:03:06 GMT -5
I'd give it a 3+ if that's allowed. My favorite line: "All of the taxes that you paid went to fund the masquerade." I love that Paul is a fiscal conservative like me. He talked about it in his latest Rolling Stone interveiw. Nice tune well executed. If you feel as strongly as I do about the govermnent and what a bunch of f-ups they are, the f-bomb is not gratuitous at all. I think the point Paul is making is a perfect reason to let it rip. But what is Paul objecting to, RTP? Is he mad that tax dollars went to the military or is he mad that tax dollars went to welfare and other social entitlements? I somehow think Paul is not as conservative as you are! I think Paul wants this "protest song" to appeal to everyone, let them think it is aimed at Left and Right causes! I gave it a 2.5 so I like it more than I dislike it but I just wish it stood for something slightly more specific that a broad complaint. Objection to high taxes is not a left-right issue. It is almost strictly a right issue. Anyway, Paul explains this in the Rolling Stone article. He said thinks government is wasteful and lives beyond its means and that it cannot continue. Spoken like a true tightwad. Really its a matter of efficiency. Government is very inefficient. Forty percent of what it takes in is wasted. Even if that isn't so, the money is better used in the private sector. You might be thinking of I've Had Enough where he talks about tax money going toward bombs. But this song, BBB, is really relevant to today's politicians in the US. Dems and Reps always bickering back and forth and not getting anything done. The good thing is when they do agree to pass a law it is usually counterproductive anyway.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 21, 2012 12:04:27 GMT -5
Speaking of that era Paul had several great "extra tracks" that appeared on his singles that were better than some of the songs on the album. Here is a revamped Hope Of Deliverance: 1. Hope of Deliverance 2. Keep Coming Back To Love (this is a standout) 3. I Can't Imagine 4. Big Boys Bickering 5. Style Style 6. Sweet Sweet Memories 7. Kicked Around No More 8. Long Leather Coat 9. Looking For Changes 10. Peace In the Neighborhood 11. The Lovers That Never Were 12. Off The Ground (great performance on 1993 MTV Close Up) 13. Mistress and Maid 14. C'Mon People Bonus: 15. Golden Earth Girl (instrumental) Beautiful melody-lyrics not as good) That's three politically themed songs (4 if you count Peace). This could be Paul's Sometime in NYC. The other songs would have been better as b-sides. I never liked Get Out Of My Way for example--didn't like Paul's voice on that one. The Lovers That Never Were was the best track on the LP IMO. Probably a top five all time Paul solo for me, of course Elvis co-wrote it. With these added tracks this becomes probably a top five Paul solo album for me.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 21, 2012 12:05:41 GMT -5
I love the OFF THE GROUND album, Mike, but for me "The Lovers That Never Were" was my least favorite! Not better than Biker Like an Icon or Get Out of My Way?
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 21, 2012 12:16:16 GMT -5
BTW let's thank Joe for coming up with this great idea of showcasing the solo Beatles songs. Not only don't they get enough attention when they are so good, its interesting as hell to hear everyone's opinons and hear these songs.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 21, 2012 13:36:57 GMT -5
Objection to high taxes is not a left-right issue. It is almost strictly a right issue. Anyway, Paul explains this in the Rolling Stone article. He said thinks government is wasteful and lives beyond its means and that it cannot continue. Spoken like a true tightwad. Really its a matter of efficiency. Government is very inefficient. Forty percent of what it takes in is wasted. Even if that isn't so, the money is better used in the private sector. Understood on high taxes being more a platform of those on the Right but in this song is Paul really bemoaning high taxes or is he bemoaning how tax money is spent? If the latter, then that is what I am asking: what is the "masquerade" he is referring to?
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 21, 2012 13:37:57 GMT -5
I love the OFF THE GROUND album, Mike, but for me "The Lovers That Never Were" was my least favorite! Not better than Biker Like an Icon or Get Out of My Way? If Joe had picked those I'd give both a 2!
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Post by coachbk on Mar 21, 2012 13:39:45 GMT -5
I liked "Biker Like An Icon" a lot the first time I heard it because I thought he was saying "vicar" rather than "biker". Makes for a more interesting song. I like the "Chuck Berry" feel of "Get Out Of My Way". "Hope Of Deliverance" was easily my favorite song from this album.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2012 14:11:14 GMT -5
BTW let's thank Joe for coming up with this great idea of showcasing the solo Beatles songs. Not only don't they get enough attention when they are so good, its interesting as hell to hear everyone's opinons and hear these songs. Y'know RTP, even with all the grief I give you over Macca, I gotta say you have good taste sometimes! This is probably the most I've ever agreed with you! ;D
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2012 14:12:50 GMT -5
I love the OFF THE GROUND album, Mike, but for me "The Lovers That Never Were" was my least favorite! Not better than Biker Like an Icon or Get Out of My Way? Those two songs show Paul more rockin' and i always like that. BIKER builds to an awesome crescendo with Paul's rough voice. GET OUT is a routine rocker, nothing special, but I think it's okay.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 21, 2012 14:33:36 GMT -5
Objection to high taxes is not a left-right issue. It is almost strictly a right issue. Anyway, Paul explains this in the Rolling Stone article. He said thinks government is wasteful and lives beyond its means and that it cannot continue. Spoken like a true tightwad. Really its a matter of efficiency. Government is very inefficient. Forty percent of what it takes in is wasted. Even if that isn't so, the money is better used in the private sector. Understood on high taxes being more a platform of those on the Right but in this song is Paul really bemoaning high taxes or is he bemoaning how tax money is spent? If the latter, then that is what I am asking: what is the "masquerade" he is referring to? He is saying he doesn't want his tax money used for whatever foolishness they are up to. Again, he clarifies this in RS when he says the spending sprees the politicans are on are not sustainable and if not stopped it will end badly. The masquerade refers to the idea that they are doing any good or really helping anyone. They are more of a hindrence than help. "I am from the government and I am here to help you and what is more--check your freedom and self-determination at the door".
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 21, 2012 15:20:50 GMT -5
This is a demo of The Lover's That Never Were from Paul and Elvis.
This has screaming worthy of Maybe I'm Amazed as was pointed out.
BTW what ever happened to Brother McCabe?
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kc
Beatle Freak
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Post by kc on Mar 21, 2012 17:32:46 GMT -5
I rate it as 2 (average). A general rant about politicians. The lyrics are facile and superficial, though the song sounds pleasant enough. Paul is not against all politicians, it seems. He was happy to meet Mr. Gorbachev, as evidenced in the Live In Red Square DVD; associated with Mr. Putin (who is in essence a dictator) and gladly accepted Mr. Obama's invitation to the White House.
I remember the stories in the press back in 1992 when Big Boys Bickering was released and all the media were interested in was the fact that Paul McCartney had sworn on one of his records: big deal!
The Hope Of Deliverance EP was good though, don't you agree? Four songs included and not a dud amongst them IMO.
Also, I agree with RTP about Keep Coming Back To Love. I liked it from the first moment I heard it. It's Silly Love Songs revisited (and I always liked that too).
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Post by vectisfabber on Mar 21, 2012 18:22:58 GMT -5
2
Indifferent at best, gratuitous bad language pulls it down.
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Post by ursamajor on Mar 21, 2012 18:58:53 GMT -5
I rate it a 2, I like the music and the singing but I think the lyrics are a little on the simplistic side and dropping the F bomb comes across as abit of a try hard.
Kicked Around No More is a great song from the Hope of Deliverance CD single as is Sweet Sweet Memories from the Off the Ground Cd single.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 22, 2012 6:14:34 GMT -5
I remember the stories in the press back in 1992 when Big Boys Bickering was released and all the media were interested in was the fact that Paul McCartney had sworn on one of his records: big deal! The Hope Of Deliverance EP was good though, don't you agree? Four songs included and not a dud amongst them IMO. I think it IS a big deal for Paul to use the "f Word" on a recording ... we're not used to him doing that ... this is Paul McCartney.. are you kidding?! I agree that the DELIVERANCE EP was solid. Very nice release of songs.
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kc
Beatle Freak
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Post by kc on Mar 22, 2012 17:20:48 GMT -5
I think it IS a big deal for Paul to use the "f Word" on a recording ... we're not used to him doing that ... this is Paul McCartney.. are you kidding?! I didn't think it was an earth shattering event back in 1992 and I still don't. Swearing on records was old hat by the 1990s. John had used the device more cogently over twenty years beforehand. Marianne Faithful had employed it with more vitriol on her Broken English album. I realise that Paul had not resorted to it, but I never bought the sqeaky clean version of Paul's personality he sometimes displayed. That may have been the public image he preferred to present, but I was not so naive as to believe it 100%. I'm not shocked that in a recording career of thirty years duration at the time and now fifty years he has sworn on one of his songs. I'm sure that on occasion he uses such language off record just as much as most of the rest of us.
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Post by vectisfabber on Mar 22, 2012 19:32:57 GMT -5
And even when John used it, it wasn't big and it wasn't clever. Ooh, sweary sweary, how naughty.
Grow up, do.
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