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Post by debjorgo on May 3, 2013 20:01:27 GMT -5
You mixer you, fabfour! Us WWL fans are sensitive. Paul made an album from his dump and called it Wings Wildlife... And it was the best solo Beatles' album of '72. The man has talent!
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Post by joeyself on May 10, 2013 17:12:28 GMT -5
I asked Mark about the differences in the editions. His answer, republished here by permission, was:
"The main difference between the two editions is word-count. I was commissioned to write 250,000 for Volume 1, and as soon as I started I realised I was probably going to exceed that. I wrote only what needed to be written, everything germane to the story as I see it, and it ended up at 780,000. My UK and US publishers (Little, Brown and Crown respectively) gulped but stayed with it, and asked me to whittle it down somewhat, to at least get close to 250,000. So the mass-market edition, aka the trade edition, is about 400,000, and in the UK they're also going with the full 780,000 in a premium edition, what I call the "author's cut."
There will also be more photographs.
It goes up to 31 December 1962.
It'll be out in October/November. Editing and production processes happening concentratedly at this moment.
The US publisher, Crown, is opting not to issue the “author’s cut” edition in the US at this time. In 2013 at least, it will only be available in (or as an export from) the UK."
I guess I'll be ordering a copy from Amazon.uk to get the "author's cut."
JcS
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on May 10, 2013 22:55:58 GMT -5
I asked Mark about the differences in the editions. His answer, republished here by permission, was: "The main difference between the two editions is word-count. I was commissioned to write 250,000 for Volume 1, and as soon as I started I realised I was probably going to exceed that. I wrote only what needed to be written, everything germane to the story as I see it, and it ended up at 780,000. My UK and US publishers (Little, Brown and Crown respectively) gulped but stayed with it, and asked me to whittle it down somewhat, to at least get close to 250,000. So the mass-market edition, aka the trade edition, is about 400,000, and in the UK they're also going with the full 780,000 in a premium edition, what I call the "author's cut."
There will also be more photographs.
It goes up to 31 December 1962.
It'll be out in October/November. Editing and production processes happening concentratedly at this moment.
The US publisher, Crown, is opting not to issue the “author’s cut” edition in the US at this time. In 2013 at least, it will only be available in (or as an export from) the UK."I guess I'll be ordering a copy from Amazon.uk to get the "author's cut." JcS Thanks for the heads up on the different versions. Any serious Beatlefan will be getting the UK version for sure. The American publishers are crazy to offer an abriged version. Reminds me of the Capitol versions of The Beatles Albums coming out in the 1960's in the USA with the tracks all mixed up and even some missing over the UK Parlophone Albums which were sequenced by the band to be heard in a particular order and holding 14 tracks. With no Internet nor Amazon.com in those days, most American fans were forced to only get the Capitol versions, unless they visited Britain or had friends send them the British versions.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 6:33:28 GMT -5
Yep...the UK version is the one to get......it should be the only version ...period
Numpties have tooooooooooooooo much influence in life....
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Post by winstonoboogie on May 11, 2013 8:45:15 GMT -5
Yep...the UK version is the one to get......it should be the only version ...period Numpties have tooooooooooooooo much influence in life.... "Numpties"?
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Post by vectisfabber on May 11, 2013 12:58:09 GMT -5
Numpty = UK slang expression for idiot.
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Post by joeyself on May 12, 2013 8:47:12 GMT -5
Someone at Steve Hoffman's board came up with this:
"Dave Dexter, III is working on the manuscript for the US version, as I type this. It will be 37 pages long, and the series will be 76 volumes, comprised of random words from the original British version, and will be printed from eighth-generation faxes. Many on this forum will rave about how the American versions are the real deal, particularly volume 47, for its "woodenness." "
JcS
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Post by joeyself on May 12, 2013 8:48:46 GMT -5
Paul made an album from his dump and called it Wings Wildlife... And it was the best solo Beatles' album of '72. The man has talent! But, it was the worst Beatles solo album of 1971, which is when it came out... JcS
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Post by winstonoboogie on May 12, 2013 9:46:53 GMT -5
Numpty = UK slang expression for idiot. OK - thanks, vectis!
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Post by debjorgo on May 12, 2013 11:19:52 GMT -5
And it was the best solo Beatles' album of '72. The man has talent! But, it was the worst Beatles solo album of 1971, which is when it came out... JcS Good point. There was no competition in '72 anyway. Let me put it this way. My top albums of the classic era 1970 - 75. (Although this may have fit better on the top ten solo Beatles thread) 1 Band on the Run 12/5/73 2 McCartney 4/20/70 3 Walls and Bridges 9/26/74 4 Ram 5/17/71 5 Venus and Mars 5/27/75 6 All Things Must Pass 11/27/70 7 Imagine 9/9/71 8 John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band 12/11/70 9 Wild Life 12/7/71 10 Blast from Your Past 12/12/75 11 Mind Games 10/29/73 12 Ringo 11/2/73 13 Red Rose Speedway 4/30/73 15 Goodnight Vienna 11/15/74 14 Some Time in New York City 6/12/72 16 Living in the Material World 5/30/73 17 Beaucoups of Blues 9/28/70 18 The Concert for Bangladesh 12/20/71 19 Dark Horse 12/9/74 20 Extra Texture (Read All About It) 9/22/75 21 Rock 'n' Roll 2/17/75 22 Sentimental Journey 4/24/70
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Oct 1, 2013 17:36:40 GMT -5
Got an advance copy of the smaller mass market version today. Haven't had a chance to look at it and won't much until late tmw. (Two phone interviews to prepare for.) But what I did look for was about the Pete Best firing. It appears, though I didn't read it all, that George Martin's feelings about Pete had a lot to do with it.
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Post by debjorgo on Oct 1, 2013 17:59:13 GMT -5
More important, did George "fire" Ringo before or after he heard him?
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Post by joeyself on Oct 2, 2013 12:56:11 GMT -5
I know that I am REALLY looking forward to seeing it now.
JcS (private joke between Steve and me)
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Oct 2, 2013 17:28:49 GMT -5
More important, did George "fire" Ringo before or after he heard him? The Beatles were well aware of him and they also had a big say. It's possible Epstein didn't tell him about Ringo coming in, which is probably why he wasn't used on "Love Me Do" initially. Was just reading Tim Riley today and he suggested that.
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Post by joeyself on Oct 3, 2013 8:25:10 GMT -5
More important, did George "fire" Ringo before or after he heard him? The Beatles were well aware of him and they also had a big say. It's possible Epstein didn't tell him about Ringo coming in, which is probably why he wasn't used on "Love Me Do" initially. Was just reading Tim Riley today and he suggested that. Then at the September 4 session, Martin was going to record them without a drummer? Doesn't seem possible that Martin didn't know about Ringo; Andy White came to the next session (September 11) AFTER Martin heard Ringo play on Sept. 4. JcS
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andyb
Very Clean
Posts: 878
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Post by andyb on Oct 3, 2013 11:39:26 GMT -5
Then at the September 4 session, Martin was going to record them without a drummer? Doesn't seem possible that Martin didn't know about Ringo; Andy White came to the next session (September 11) AFTER Martin heard Ringo play on Sept. 4. JcS Would be nice if there was good explanation in the book about this. Either Ron Richards did those first two sessions and Martin only heard the results or Andy White was pre-booked for the 11th no matter what happened on the 4th.
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Post by joeyself on Oct 3, 2013 15:31:19 GMT -5
I too want to see what Mark has come up with on this matter. This is from DMBeatles site, which is consistent with what I remember:
September 4, 1962: 2.30-5.00pm. Ron Richards leads a rehearsal of six songs, including `How Do You Do It?', `Love Me Do', `Please Please Me'. Dezo Hoffmann takes pictures during the pre-session rehearsal. First Hoffmann's Beatles publicity shots. 5.30-7.00pm. Restaurant Alpino. Dinner of the Beatles with Neil Aspinall and George Martin. Studio 2. 7.00-10.00pm. Recording: `How Do You Do It?' (takes unknown); `Love Me Do' (takes 1-15+). Mono mixing: `How Do You Do It?' (from take 2); `Love Me Do' (from unknown take number). Producer: George Martin; Engineer: Norman Smith; 2nd Engineer: unknown. First session for the first single. Remixes for cutting acetates.
So, unless Ringo skipped dinner, and then Martin didn't go back to the studio for the recording of "How Do You Do It?" and "Love Me Do," Martin knew Ringo was in the group, and heard his ability on those two songs. It was after that that Andy White was booked--or if booked previously, was not then canceled.
JcS
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 3, 2013 21:49:36 GMT -5
Here is the link to Mark Lewisohn's website which was said on Beatle Photo Blog to be new: www.marklewisohn.net/Our Steve and Tammy Tingles(Beatle Photo Blog) are recommended by ML on his Links Page! Hooray! When Mark starts his multi-volumes on the Solo years, he will need to come to me as to The JSD Postulate as it is copyrighted.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Oct 4, 2013 9:40:35 GMT -5
Here is the link to Mark Lewisohn's website which was said on Beatle Photo Blog to be new: www.marklewisohn.net/Our Steve and Tammy Tingles(Beatle Photo Blog) are recommended by ML on his Links Page! Hooray! When Mark starts his multi-volumes on the Solo years, he will need to come to me as to The JSD Postulate as it is copyrighted. Let me announce here that our own Joey Self is also acknowledged in the print book.
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Post by joeyself on Oct 4, 2013 10:40:56 GMT -5
Here is the link to Mark Lewisohn's website which was said on Beatle Photo Blog to be new: www.marklewisohn.net/Our Steve and Tammy Tingles(Beatle Photo Blog) are recommended by ML on his Links Page! Hooray! When Mark starts his multi-volumes on the Solo years, he will need to come to me as to The JSD Postulate as it is copyrighted. Let me announce here that our own Joey Self is also acknowledged in the print book. That surprised me when you told me that. I'd offered to help Mark with any questions he had of a legal variety--what something meant in layman's terms, if he needed it. He never asked for my assistance, because frankly, the lawsuits didn't start flying until after they made it big in America, and this first volume ends at the close of 1962. So, I didn't really earn a mention, but I'll sure take it! JcS
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Post by mikev on Oct 4, 2013 11:58:36 GMT -5
Let me announce here that our own Joey Self is also acknowledged in the print book. That surprised me when you told me that. I'd offered to help Mark with any questions he had of a legal variety--what something meant in layman's terms, if he needed it. He never asked for my assistance, because frankly, the lawsuits didn't start flying until after they made it big in America, and this first volume ends at the close of 1962. So, I didn't really earn a mention, but I'll sure take it! JcS Absolutely!!! Congrats!!! Geez, I was thrilled a couple of weeks ago when Howard Kaylan (Turtles lead singer) "liked" my comment on Harry Nilsson on facebook! My wife just didn't get it. But to get acknowledged in print on one of the most anticipated Beatle books ever is pretty cool!
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Post by joeyself on Oct 4, 2013 22:57:05 GMT -5
This will be #4 for me. First was Allan Kozinn's book from the mid-90's. Steve and I both got named in the credits there as "friends at various cyber outposts" who offered encouragement. Allan and I had met on line, but also had seen each other in person. Second was one of Doug Sulpy's Bootleg Guide books--don't remember which one, but I think it was the first solo guide. I did NOTHING to contribute to that book; I had read some of the correspondence Doug had with Apple's attorneys regarding his format of DRUGS, DIVORCE AND A SLIPPING IMAGE, and given him some advice. But when that one came out, I wasn't mentioned, and no big deal. But a book or two later, there I was! I did deserve the third one. Jacques Volcouve, the president of the French Beatles Fan Club contacted me about using the article I wrote on Harrison's "My Sweet Lord/He's So Fine" lawsuit in a biography he wrote on George shortly after he died. I said "sure, I don't care," thinking he would read the article, translate a few lines and that'd be it. Not quite. I don't read French well, but when I have my original article in hand and compare the two, I can tell that whole paragraphs were lifted. I was given due credit for it, and if I decide to write MY book on THE BEATLES IN COURT (and that seems less likely each passing year--fatherhood and work and other obligations have taken precedent), the fact that a lot of one chapter appeared in a biography published in French shouldn't affect my sales a bit! JcS
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Post by vectisfabber on Oct 5, 2013 3:21:26 GMT -5
Kudos, Joey!
I really want this book, but I equally really don't want to pay £75 for it.
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Post by joeyself on Oct 5, 2013 8:49:01 GMT -5
I think the £75 is the deluxe edition; the edited version, which should be ample for most tastes (maybe not yours) goes for whatever regular retail is for a book in the UK.
JcS
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Oct 5, 2013 13:04:01 GMT -5
I read in the Mark Lewisohn interview online at his website that Macca has declined to be interviewed and contribute to this project. My question to joeyself and Steve; Does that also include Ringo, Pete Best, George Martin, Cynthia Lennon, and the surviving Quarrymen? Are any of them contributing in any way to this first book thru interviews or whatever?
I will be looking forward to Paul's reaction to the book (I am sure he will be reading it)as well as the other individuals mentioned above, who are a vital part of the early years covered in this first part coming out. Their opinions on the book will go a long way in validating what we read about in the book and accept as factual.
As George Harrison once said to Lewisohn; (paraphrased) "You weren't there when this all happened so how can you write about it accurately?"
I am planning to buy the extended edition (the 75 Pound price) coming out in November in the UK to get the full story, but I am hoping there will be comments from the major players in this story prior to that, which will help fans justify paying the expensive price the book will cost, especially the extended version. These opinions will go a long way towards validating Lewisohn and ensuring the next two parts of the book sell when they are eventully released (if all us 1st generation fans aren't dead by the time they come out!).
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Post by acebackwords on Oct 5, 2013 14:21:55 GMT -5
As George Harrison once said to Lewisohn; (paraphrased) "You weren't there when this all happened so how can you write about it accurately?". As a guy who loves to read non-fiction I always found statements like this to be nonsense. There's a place for both autobiography AND biography. If that's not so then why did George spend so much time reading accounts of Krishna (who was a historical figure) mostly written by people who "weren't there.'
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Post by acebackwords on Oct 5, 2013 14:25:16 GMT -5
Would George maintain that the only people qualified to write about, say, the Kennedy assassination were people who were actually "there" in Dallas on November 22, 1963?? What George is saying makes about as much sense as that.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Oct 5, 2013 16:51:53 GMT -5
I read in the Mark Lewisohn interview online at his website that Macca has declined to be interviewed and contribute to this project. My question to joeyself and Steve; Does that also include Ringo, Pete Best, George Martin, Cynthia Lennon, and the surviving Quarrymen? Are any of them contributing in any way to this first book thru interviews or whatever? I will be looking forward to Paul's reaction to the book (I am sure he will be reading it)as well as the other individuals mentioned above, who are a vital part of the early years covered in this first part coming out. Their opinions on the book will go a long way in validating what we read about in the book and accept as factual. As George Harrison once said to Lewisohn; (paraphrased) "You weren't there when this all happened so how can you write about it accurately?" I am planning to buy the extended edition (the 75 Pound price) coming out in November in the UK to get the full story, but I am hoping there will be comments from the major players in this story prior to that, which will help fans justify paying the expensive price the book will cost, especially the extended version. These opinions will go a long way towards validating Lewisohn and ensuring the next two parts of the book sell when they are eventully released (if all us 1st generation fans aren't dead by the time they come out!). I'll have to look at the book to see for certain, but I'm pretty sure Pete Best, the Quarrymen and Cynthia were interviewed. Not positive about George Martin.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Oct 5, 2013 16:56:39 GMT -5
This will be #4 for me. First was Allan Kozinn's book from the mid-90's. Steve and I both got named in the credits there as "friends at various cyber outposts" who offered encouragement. Allan and I had met on line, but also had seen each other in person. Second was one of Doug Sulpy's Bootleg Guide books--don't remember which one, but I think it was the first solo guide. I did NOTHING to contribute to that book; I had read some of the correspondence Doug had with Apple's attorneys regarding his format of DRUGS, DIVORCE AND A SLIPPING IMAGE, and given him some advice. But when that one came out, I wasn't mentioned, and no big deal. But a book or two later, there I was! I did deserve the third one. Jacques Volcouve, the president of the French Beatles Fan Club contacted me about using the article I wrote on Harrison's "My Sweet Lord/He's So Fine" lawsuit in a biography he wrote on George shortly after he died. I said "sure, I don't care," thinking he would read the article, translate a few lines and that'd be it. Not quite. I don't read French well, but when I have my original article in hand and compare the two, I can tell that whole paragraphs were lifted. I was given due credit for it, and if I decide to write MY book on THE BEATLES IN COURT (and that seems less likely each passing year--fatherhood and work and other obligations have taken precedent), the fact that a lot of one chapter appeared in a biography published in French shouldn't affect my sales a bit! JcS I haven't really kept track of the books I've been mentioned in. Besides Allan, I know Keith Badman mentioned me. My first one was by Howard DeWitt. I really haven't cared much if I get mentioned. I'm not seeking it out, though I appreciate when it happens. The mention by Allan Kozinn was a surprise because we haven't met in person. I've been mentioned in a couple of foreign books, too.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Oct 5, 2013 18:32:59 GMT -5
I read in the Mark Lewisohn interview online at his website that Macca has declined to be interviewed and contribute to this project. My question to joeyself and Steve; Does that also include Ringo, Pete Best, George Martin, Cynthia Lennon, and the surviving Quarrymen? Are any of them contributing in any way to this first book thru interviews or whatever? I will be looking forward to Paul's reaction to the book (I am sure he will be reading it)as well as the other individuals mentioned above, who are a vital part of the early years covered in this first part coming out. Their opinions on the book will go a long way in validating what we read about in the book and accept as factual. As George Harrison once said to Lewisohn; (paraphrased) "You weren't there when this all happened so how can you write about it accurately?" I am planning to buy the extended edition (the 75 Pound price) coming out in November in the UK to get the full story, but I am hoping there will be comments from the major players in this story prior to that, which will help fans justify paying the expensive price the book will cost, especially the extended version. These opinions will go a long way towards validating Lewisohn and ensuring the next two parts of the book sell when they are eventully released (if all us 1st generation fans aren't dead by the time they come out!). I'll have to look at the book to see for certain, but I'm pretty sure Pete Best, the Quarrymen and Cynthia were interviewed. Not positive about George Martin. Ok, thanks Steve. So Ringo is not participating either? Though in this first part he doesn't enter the story until just before the first part ends, which is Dec. 1962 I believe. Look forward to your perspective on the first book. You'll probably get through it before the extended version is available to order, which is around Nov. 13. Am hoping Paul, Ringo, or Pete have said something about the book by then as well. George Martin too.
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