|
Post by debjorgo on Mar 27, 2017 20:19:54 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Mar 30, 2017 14:06:37 GMT -5
I bought the 2 disc set. For my ears and preferences, I vastly prefer the demo disc to the remixed/mastered or whatever of Flowers in the Dirt. In my opinion, the differences in the two show Paul's strenghts and weakness. As a producer, Paul often gets too cute and perfect for his own good. Flowers is very slick. The demo disk, I think, highlights his strengths much better.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Mar 31, 2017 11:16:09 GMT -5
I bought the 2 disc set. For my ears and preferences, I vastly prefer the demo disc to the remixed/mastered or whatever of Flowers in the Dirt. In my opinion, the differences in the two show Paul's strenghts and weakness. As a producer, Paul often gets too cute and perfect for his own good. Flowers if very slick. The demo disk, I think, highlights his strengths much better. FITD is a mess as an album. It started with Paul and Elvis Costello and there would have been a killer album if the original plan was adhered to. Paul though thought that it was losing its identity as a "Paul McCartney" album so he backs off the original idea and he uses less of the co-written songs and much less EC on co-vocals. Then he brings in three other producers, a total of four I believe, using guys who had recently scored big hits with others. Paul did this on New, using different producers throughout the album. It worked better on New. FITD has some very good songs but man it is disjointed and the 1980's Production especially with drums and synths just smothers the songs. I like the album but what I wanted was "stripped down" versions of the studio tracks! I love "Motor Of Love, for instance, but that is buried in sickly sweet and slick 1980's production! The Demos you refer to, sayne, are very good. I am so happy to have them here.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 2:24:46 GMT -5
FLOWERS IN THE DIRT (DELUXE EDITION) hasn't made it downunder as yet, one of my fav Paul albums, i'll definitely get it once the raft that it's coming downunder on arrives on these shores.
|
|
kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
|
Post by kc on Apr 1, 2017 2:40:03 GMT -5
FLOWERS IN THE DIRT (DELUXE EDITION) hasn't made it downunder as yet, one of my fav Paul albums, i'll definitely get it once the raft that it's coming downunder on arrives on these shores. Can you believe that the useless bastards haven't even managed to get the two disc version in?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 4:38:23 GMT -5
FLOWERS IN THE DIRT (DELUXE EDITION) hasn't made it downunder as yet, one of my fav Paul albums, i'll definitely get it once the raft that it's coming downunder on arrives on these shores. Can you believe that the useless bastards haven't even managed to get the two disc version in? And it's not listed at all on JB's web site, useless is an apt description.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 3, 2017 11:45:14 GMT -5
Has the re-issue of Flowers In The Dirt changed any lives here? Have the bonus tracks given an insight into Paul McCartney, the man, that one never had before?
Pure McCartney, being personally curated by Paul McCartney himself, gave me a better feel for what makes that superstar tick! Re-issued Flowers In The Dirt, under the personal supervision of Paul McCartney, a little less so.
|
|
kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
|
Post by kc on Apr 5, 2017 22:03:14 GMT -5
Can you believe that the useless bastards haven't even managed to get the two disc version in? And it's not listed at all on JB's web site, useless is an apt description. And wouldn't you know it, the Sgt. Peppers reissues are up on their site immediately. Only A$335 for the box at present!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 6:40:55 GMT -5
And it's not listed at all on JB's web site, useless is an apt description. And wouldn't you know it, the Sgt. Peppers reissues are up on their site immediately. Only A$335 for the box at present! Mighty Ape has the FITD deluxe edition. Have a look at the cost, is that what we were expecting at JB.. www.mightyape.com.au/artists/paul-mccartney
|
|
|
Post by OldFred on Apr 8, 2017 10:03:54 GMT -5
For those getting the Flowers RSD release.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 9, 2017 23:16:51 GMT -5
Does anyone else want to hit the dance floor and shake their ass to "Ou est le Soleil?!"
I wasn't clubbing it in 1989, was that song a dance floor favorite?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 5:32:24 GMT -5
Does anyone else want to hit the dance floor and shake their ass to "Ou est le Soleil?!" I wasn't clubbing it in 1989, was that song a dance floor favorite? It didn't suit the dance floor and it doesn't suit the horizontal rumba either.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 10, 2017 9:31:02 GMT -5
Does anyone else want to hit the dance floor and shake their ass to "Ou est le Soleil?!" I wasn't clubbing it in 1989, was that song a dance floor favorite? It didn't suit the dance floor and it doesn't suit the horizontal rumba either. I don't know about the latter fabfour, my partners seem impressed when I shout out repeatedly "Ou est le Soleil" when in the act! They think I am exotic.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 12, 2017 9:42:00 GMT -5
What is the buzz here on the 2017 FITD now that it has been out for a couple of weeks or so? I picked up from amazon the two Disc version just so I would have the main album and the Demo Disc more handy for play. It is rather cumbersome extracting the Discs from the tightly stuffed Box.
I grew to love FITD back in 1989 but I cannot say in 2017 that I appreciate it even more than back then. I am primarily having problems with the late 1980's production style and the fact Paul used four or maybe five different producers so the album seems like it is from almost different artists.
The Paul/EC written songs are even over-produced and the Demo Disc makes that clear but it is a joy to have! I truly wish we had a stripped down "Motor Of Love" in the bonus material(we do not) as I think there was the potential there for a hit single but Paul kind of dumped it towards the end of the album.
I thought that we would have more of a buzz here on this but really none of the McCartney re-issues have created a buzz with most of the general public.
|
|
nine
Very Clean
Posts: 840
|
Post by nine on Apr 14, 2017 0:12:41 GMT -5
What is the buzz here on the 2017 FITD now that it has been out for a couple of weeks or so? I picked up from amazon the two Disc version just so I would have the main album and the Demo Disc more handy for play. It is rather cumbersome extracting the Discs from the tightly stuffed Box. I grew to love FITD back in 1989 but I cannot say in 2017 that I appreciate it even more than back then. I am primarily having problems with the late 1980's production style and the fact Paul used four or maybe five different producers so the album seems like it is from almost different artists. The Paul/EC written songs are even over-produced and the Demo Disc makes that clear but it is a joy to have! I truly wish we had a stripped down "Motor Of Love" in the bonus material(we do not) as I think there was the potential there for a hit single but Paul kind of dumped it towards the end of the album. I thought that we would have more of a buzz here on this but really none of the McCartney re-issues have created a buzz with most of the general public. The demos show us again how Paul is prone to over cook his songs. I would have liked to have seen more demos than just the Costello/Macca ones. Apparantly Figure of EIght was quite a rocker till the hot shot producers stepped in.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 14, 2017 11:35:18 GMT -5
I agree Nine! I've written above that I would have liked a stripped down "Motor Of Love" and even a stripped down "This One" with all of that 1980's production left at the door!
|
|
kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
|
Post by kc on Apr 14, 2017 22:10:31 GMT -5
Concerning some of the bonus audio from the box set, I like a mixture of some of the original acoustic demos and some of the 1988 band demos:
Tommy’s Coming Home: I prefer the original demo. Wonderful. So Like Candy: I prefer the 1988 band demo. Excellent. Playboy To A Man: I prefer the 1988 band demo. This rocks, love it. Twenty Fine Fingers: I prefer the original demo. I only find this OK though. The Lovers That Never Were: I actually prefer the version that appeared on Off The Ground. That is outstanding IMO.
So, I don’t really side with either Paul or Elvis about the desired level of production of these songs. They were both right and both wrong, at least to my taste.
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Apr 15, 2017 16:05:07 GMT -5
I agree Nine! I've written above that I would have liked a stripped down "Motor Of Love" and even a stripped down "This One" with all of that 1980's production left at the door! I think the stripped down Disc 2 proves your Postulate! I'm thinking that if Paul went stripped down for at least half of his post-Beatles career, less polished on 1/4, and stayed the same on the other 1/4, we'd be seeing Paul a whole lot differently.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 16, 2017 0:36:12 GMT -5
I agree sayne, stripped down McCartney lets his music do the talking not the production!
There is some McCartney that calls for a symphony orchestra but FITD is a goof example of gross over-production. Too many cute little special flourishes throughout that make Paul sound twee! Pipes Of Peace the same damn thing.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Apr 17, 2017 17:59:54 GMT -5
I thought that we would have more of a buzz here on this but really none of the McCartney re-issues have created a buzz with most of the general public. The new FLOWERS IN THE DIRT reissue debuted on Billboard's 200 at # 33.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 20, 2017 9:14:10 GMT -5
I thought that we would have more of a buzz here on this but really none of the McCartney re-issues have created a buzz with most of the general public. The new FLOWERS IN THE DIRT reissue debuted on Billboard's 200 at # 33. Hey, not a bad one week showing since it only reached #21 on Billboard's Top 200 in its heyday! What I have learned from the 2017 re-issue of FITD is that Paul blew it big time and I don't really like this album as much as I thought I did! Paul had good songs and he had something going strong with EC but Paul can't help himself and didn't want this a McCartney/Costello album so it is a hodgepodge of different producers and sounds, all badly produced in late 1980's gimmickry! The Macca/Costello Demo disc saves the day! I came to love this album I think because of Paul's "comeback" World Tour of 1989/1990 and I had the good fortune to see two of his three early December Chicago shows still in 1989 when the initial North American leg of the Tour was in its infancy(great experiences with very good friends, some no longer in my life), his two February 1990(including Valentine's Day) shows at the now demolished Market Square Arena(site of Elvis Presley's very last concert) in downtown Indianapolis that were likewise very good with some changes in the setlist(I sat second row Stage Right and James McCartney sat in front of me to my right 20 feet leaning on the stage with I think Mary and MPL staff) and the grand World Tour finale at Chicago's Soldier Field on July 29, 1990 where the "Lennon Medley" remains my favorite concert moment ever from any artist I have ever seen live! I played FITD a lot those two years and thought I loved it. I still fondly play FITD today but what a mess and I cannot get past that 1980's production! It almost makes me want to style my hair again in that Axl Rose mullet I wore it as in 1988/1989!
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Apr 20, 2017 11:06:38 GMT -5
What I have learned from the 2017 re-issue of FITD is that Paul blew it big time and I don't really like this album as much as I thought I did! Paul had good songs and he had something going strong with EC but Paul can't help himself and didn't want this a McCartney/Costello album so it is a hodgepodge of different producers and sounds, all badly produced in late 1980's gimmickry! My feelings on the original FITD from 1989 (I don't have the 2017 re-issue yet) is that "Paul was now finally back on the right track, but the album as a whole is only so-so". Paul has two classic tracks on there for me ("This One" and "Put It There"), and I enjoyed "Figure of Eight" and to a much lesser extent "My Brave Face" and perhaps "Rough Ride". But all the others were lightweight and fluffy to me, and I came away with the overall impression that the collaboration between Paul and Elvis Costello was kind of a missed opportunity. That's the interesting part for me. That while I did not much like the Paul/Costello works on the actual album, I have heard some of these demos, and for me some of them might be even better than the originally released versions. (I might like the demo for "My Brave Face" better than the original). This was a surprise for me, since I always felt their work together was "meh" . I don't know if you listen to the THINGS WE SAID TODAY Podcasts, but I kind of side with Ken Michaels' view on this "80's production" matter. I know it's common for many people to say "oh, this sounds so dated!", or "this sounds so '80s" (or '70s, or whatever)... but that never concerns me. When I listen to the 80s, I expect the music to sound like the 80s... just as I would expect a Doo-Wop song from 1955 to sound like The '50s. Or for something like "She Loves You" or "I Want To Hold Your Hand" to still sound like they are from the '60s. None of that is ever a problem for me.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 20, 2017 21:38:40 GMT -5
My feelings on the original FITD from 1989 (I don't have the 2017 re-issue yet) is that "Paul was now finally back on the right track, but the album as a whole is only so-so". Paul has two classic tracks on there for me ("This One" and "Put It There"), and I enjoyed "Figure of Eight" and to a much lesser extent "My Brave Face" and perhaps "Rough Ride". But all the others were lightweight and fluffy to me, and I came away with the overall impression that the collaboration between Paul and Elvis Costello was kind of a missed opportunity. I agree that Paul was making progress over his mid-1980's work. A nice FITD moment for me is I was driving towards downtown Chicago on a Friday night in the Summer of 1989 to visit college buddies and the lights of the skyscrapers were looking beautiful and the F.M. station I was listening to in my car played The Beatles (Paul) "For No One" from Revolver and then followed it without pause with Paul's brand new "We Got Married" and I was thrilled, I thought the new "We Got Married" held its own ground against this classic McCartney Beatles' track and it fit together. I remember thinking, "Wow Paul is back!" That was and is a nice memory.
|
|
|
Post by debjorgo on Apr 21, 2017 0:19:57 GMT -5
One thing I've found, if I liked the way it sounded when it was released, I like the way it sounds now. Amazing as that sounds, it's true.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 5:36:05 GMT -5
FITD would have to be in Paul's top 5 solo albums, making it way too good to be in anyone's" i wish these albums were better" list, a list alternatively known as a "Postulate".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 6:04:27 GMT -5
After multiple listens i have decided Playboy to a Man is actually a reasonable song.
It's Pads, Paws and Claws that is a dire effort.
The main reason there was never a Costello/McCartney album released is the songs.
There just weren't enough good songs written during this collaboration to make an album with what they had.
Too bad they didn't keep writing together.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 21, 2017 7:02:49 GMT -5
FITD would have to be in Paul's top 5 solo albums, making it way too good to be in anyone's" i wish these albums were better" list, a list alternatively known as a "Postulate". The Postulate Macca albums are untouchable, the height of Paul's powers as a real Rocker, a free spirited Rock and Roll God! But he got beat back into the "Beatle Paul" box by the music critics and certain snobby Beatles fans!
|
|
|
Post by stavros on Apr 21, 2017 17:23:30 GMT -5
A nice FITD moment for me is I was driving towards downtown Chicago on a Friday night in the Summer of 1989 to visit college buddies and the lights of the skyscrapers were looking beautiful and the F.M. station I was listening to in my car played The Beatles (Paul) "For No One" from Revolver and then followed it without pause with Paul's brand new "We Got Married" and I was thrilled, I thought the new "We Got Married" held its own ground against this classic McCartney Beatles' track and it fit together. I remember thinking, "Wow Paul is back!" That was and is a nice memory. What a great memory. That segue from "For No One" to "We Got Married" actually works extremely well. At that point "For No One was half a lifetime ago for Paul McCartney. Was it a sequel of sorts? I don't know. It's also scary to think that more time has passed since "We Got Married" was released than the 23 year gap from "For No One". When FITD was (first) released I too thought Paul had finally woken up from a very muddled 1980s. He didn't have a good 80s in my opinion. The early 80s were overshadowed by the death of John Lennon and I think it affected Paul deeply. He decided to try teaming up with Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson and then his old chum Ringo in a series of projects that were probably commercially successful (Broadstreet the movie excepted) but gave a general impression Paul seemed to be on the wane artistically. Then George became huge again with Cloud 9 and with the Traveling Wilburys just to rub even more salt into the wounds. With the new release of FITD I've decided that the slick 1980s production is as much part of the album as the slightly out of tune Moog synthesizer was on Band on the Run during the 1970s. It just is what it is. Or indeed was. I really enjoyed the demos with Elvis Costello on the new release. Some sprinkles of added dirt to the nicely arranged 'flowers'. That was because it was something new and not part of an album I'd been familiar with for at least 20 years. But overall this release hasn't really changed my long standing opinion. FITD is still a good solid Paul album with highlights like "Put it There", "This One" and a few others. But this expanded version, in a way is more a hint at what might have been had Paul fully embraced the partnership with Elvis Costello. With the 28 years hindsight it seems like a no brainer to have developed the working relationship and made a joint Paul and Elvis album. But that is to take a very 21st century view, to ignore and forget how public opinion in that latter half of the 80s viewed Paul McCartney and his previous 80s output and how Paul viewed his status back then. So FITD had to be a solo Paul album and Elvis Costello had to be left in the background. Paul was about to re-assert himself and tour the world again.
|
|
kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
|
Post by kc on Apr 21, 2017 21:12:56 GMT -5
I haven’t really changed my opinion of Flowers In The Dirt since buying the remaster either. I still think it’s basically a good album that falls away towards the end. I’m OK with the first eight songs, though naturally I prefer some of them to others. Don’t Be Careless Love and How Many People don’t really do much for me. I find Motor Of Love is acceptable, but I can understand why a lot of people dislike it. I don’t mind Ou Est Le Soleil either, but think it should have ideally been used as a B-side on a single.
I have been delving into the alternate possibilities for McCartney studio album releases for the period of about 1989-1993. I agree, there was the scope for an excellent joint McCartney/Costello album that was missed. Something along the lines of this perhaps:
My Brave Face Veronica You Want Her Too Don’t Be Careless Love Playboy to A Man Back On My Feet
Tommy’s Coming Home The Lovers That Never Were Pads, Paws And Claws So Like Candy Mistress And Maid That Day Is Done
The trouble is that if this was released in 1989, then what would the follow up have been? Something like this might have come out say a year later:
Figure Of Eight We Got Married Distractions Loveliest Thing Put It There Motor Of Love
This One Love Come Tumbling Down Rough Ride How Many People I Love This House Flying To My Home
This looks pretty good to me, about as good as the actual Flowers In The Dirt IMO. An alternative would have been to wait until about late 1992 and release an album of combined solo McCartney Flowers In The Dirt and Off The Ground tracks. l
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 21, 2017 23:57:11 GMT -5
At that point "For No One was half a lifetime ago for Paul McCartney. Was it a sequel of sorts? I don't know. It's also scary to think that more time has passed since "We Got Married" was released than the 23 year gap from "For No One". Excellent point! On a recent Chaos And Creation In The Backyard Survivor tourney elsewhere, I opined that "Too Much Rain" was classic "modern McCartney" but I then remembered that song is already 12 years old! That is the same gap as 1964 to 1976 and what a gap in between those years! I remember 1976 well but 1964 not very much at all(if any as I was less than 2 years old in February 1964). Where does time go?!
|
|