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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 6:15:52 GMT -5
I'd say John realised Yoko had no real musical ability and learned to live with her below par contributions.
Chuck clearly hadn't learnt that.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 25, 2017 6:17:28 GMT -5
Valid observation lowbasso! Not really, when you consider my rebuttal to lowbasso - that Yoko just NEVER looked particularly happy. She was never known to smile much, and she always looked miserable, straight-faced, and "stern". Very serious. You can see that just about any time when it concerns performing - even on her own stuff. As a matter of fact, her "miserable and stern look" was also another typical technique used to bash her. I'm in the minority, but I've never liked the Cheap Trick version of "I'm Losing You" as much as the released one. But all that aside, here ya go again looking for conspiracy theories and some kind of scandalous angle. Sorry, I don't have a mind that thinks everyone's running around with some calculated plan to "sabotage" or "destroy". I think it's ridiculous to suggest that Yoko wanted to tick off every musician who would ever play with John. Why? So she could have him all to herself? So maybe Yoko could have been free to be the sole person who played all the guitars, bass, drums, keyboards, and saxophones...? Heck, maybe Yoko was plotting to tick John off too - thus she could become John Lennon and sing all his songs as well. Bizarre. John was right - you should support your wife. (So this is how far we've fallen these days, is it? Anyone who has his wife's back is degraded as "whipped"?). Anyway -- I stand by my assertion that if John really wanted to attend the Bangla Desh show but his wife forced him out of it, that might be considered "whipped"; but if he truly loved her, wanted to be with her and perform with her, and voluntarily chose to tell George to stuff it -- then he is not. I've already agreed with that. But as I said, I think it would still have sucked as was, even if Yoko had stayed home. (By the way, let's not forget that that 1972 week on the Mike Douglas Show was indeed billed as "John And Yoko Week"' not "John Lennon Week"). John was indeed thrilled and like an excited kid to be singing with his idol - no disagreement there. It was the only redeeming factor in the entire performance(s) for me. It was John's adulation that stood out - not the poor quality of the performances, and certainly not Yoko's ill-timed desire to be a part of it all. Anyway - I hope you played the audio from the video I supplied. John has spoken to you and told you the score.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 25, 2017 8:04:25 GMT -5
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 25, 2017 9:04:19 GMT -5
You could tell Chuck was not pleased with the band. . I just found out that the very next year Chuck used Elephant's Memory as his band on his BIO album.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 25, 2017 9:05:44 GMT -5
Yoko's vocalizations sound good on the track presented on the link below but not on any classic Chuck Berry songs.. It might have improved "My Ding-A-Ling".
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Post by mikev on Mar 25, 2017 10:04:45 GMT -5
Yoko's vocalizations sound good on the track presented on the link below but not on any classic Chuck Berry songs.. It might have improved "My Ding-A-Ling". Actually the female vocalists in the background sort of sound like Yoko on Bungalow Bill.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 25, 2017 11:15:33 GMT -5
Don't be silly Joe! I said Yoko did not like John fraternizing with other famous Rockers and I cited Clapton, Zappa, and the great Chuck Berry! That includes The Beatles! She didn't care about musical sessionmen, she felt confidently above them and she needed them to make her sound at least tolerable! I think it was Jack Douglas who said Yoko thought John was digging his time with the Cheap Trick guys too much so out they go! Same with the famous call from Paul about possibly working together: kept from John! You don't like conspiracies and intrigues eh, I wouldn't have known that from you more recent political posts here! I am not saying there was anything wrong with those posts but you love conspiracy and intrigue as much as the next man and woman! Again, "whipped" to me is not evil mind or physical control but it is not being rational because blinded by love and I am right with you in the trenches that John loved Yoko and I'll go further and say John might have died from drugs or boredom(or both) by 1968 if not for Yoko! But George Harrison was 100% right about Yoko sitting out Bangladesh! It was ridiculous of John to think she belonged on that stage with those real singers and musicians! John was blinded by love and thought it okay that Yoko ruin Bangladesh! No way in Hell was Yoko going to let John be on stage with Bob Dylan, John may have enjoyed that too much! A Husband can love and support his Wife but if she says let's go rob a bank and kill people, the dude is whipped if he goes does that with her. Yoko "performing" at Bangladesh is the same thing! Many eardrums and the sanity of thousands would have been endangered by Yoko's crap singing!
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 26, 2017 7:22:37 GMT -5
I would point out I don't ever recall Yoko looking pleased, happy, or excited whenever John was making music with a band live. Not in this moment with Chuck, certainly not when the rooftop concert occurred in 1969, where she looked grumpy and miserable sitting off to the side, in the Imagine movie when they were recording the album at Tittenhurst. It was not until Double Fantasy studio footage that I ever recall her even smiling in the studio while John was playing. So I always wondered if she ever enjoyed watching John perform. I always came away thinking she was not happy when John was looking like he was having a good time making music with whatever band was backing him, but particularly The Beatles. I think that's typical Yoko-bashing reaching. Yoko seldom - if ever - looked "happy". That was always yet another criticism leveled at her, remember? She always looked "serious", or "stern", or "hard". Whether she was watching The Beatles perform, whether she was watching John perform, whether she was involved and performing herself, whether she was making her own recordings. She always had this stoic, miserable, natural non-expression. And how much of that Double Fantasy studio footage is out there? Please let us see it, because nobody else has it. The Double Fantasy footage I refer to are still photos I have seen in various books.In some she is actually smiling. Steve points out in his news release of Pete Shotton's death that Pete says the only time he and John lost contact was when he moved to NY and Pete claims it was Yoko who kept John from staying touch with his old friends in Liverpool. He says John finally called him when his tarrot card reader he and Yoko used said it was ok to contact his old friends again. If believing that Yoko really did make an effort to keep John from associating a lot with his friends and bandmates from prior to their getting together in 1968, is Yoko bashing, then I guess I am guilty as charged. I think had John lived beyond 1980, he would have taken more charge of his own personal life. There was evidence of that as early as 1975. Getting off his heavy drug use from the late 60's and early 70's was as important to him getting back control of his own life and not being so dependent on Yoko. John clearly loved her (I think - John could easily change his mind about almost anything, and look at how he treated her the night Nixon won the election), but she clearly was not the kind of personality that many people could warm up to. She did look miserable almost all the time and never seemed to admire or acknowledge John's work in The Beatles until the LOVE project began around 2001-02.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 27, 2017 15:44:27 GMT -5
I think it was Jack Douglas who said Yoko thought John was digging his time with the Cheap Trick guys too much so out they go! Same with the famous call from Paul about possibly working together: kept from John! So thus forevermore we are to believe this because Jack Douglas says so. Goss-ip, Goss-ip. Isn't Douglas sometimes "in" with the Lennon camp, then sometimes "out"? I get confused, he's changed his tune so often. No, I am not a conspiracy theorist. Never have been. Whatever political stuff you're referring to is me giving back the same to the other 'side', that is all. Then say "love is blind". Not that someone is "whipped". More accurate, I think. I don't believe that "Yoko did not want John to enjoy himself with other artists". And in fact, I believe it's plainly evident with the Mike Douglas appearance in 1972 that Yoko was very happy that John was so excited to be with Chuck. That's an absurd analogy, and nothing at all like anything Yoko and John ever got into. Still - if the husband wanted voluntarily to join his wife's plan in such a scenario, then he'd just be blindly lovestruck. If he felt pressured into such an act, and helpless not to be his own person and make his own decision, then you can say he was "whipped". And a lot of people's eardrums and tolerance levels were put to the test by Ravi's Indian music at the start of the concert, which George had no trouble subjecting his Rock audience to. ("If you enjoyed the tuning so much, I hope you will enjoy the playing even more"). That's okay though - it wasn't Yoko's idea. Right? It was George's business as to how he wanted to run his concert, even if it meant dissing a friend. It was his right. Just as it was Jon's right to tell him to stuff it, and stand by his wife. JohnandYoko at that time were doing all these types of events together, so no reason why they ought not do the same at Bangla Desh. And I don't think Yoko would have been heard nearly for as long as Ravi's musicians were.
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Post by vectisfabber on Mar 28, 2017 5:22:32 GMT -5
One of my oldest friends recently divorced after 30-odd years of marriage. One of the first things his (ex-)wife did was quite deliberately drive a wedge between him and all his friends. So sad, and so unnecessary.
We called her "Yoko" behind her back.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 28, 2017 7:49:06 GMT -5
The Double Fantasy footage I refer to are still photos I have seen in various books.In some she is actually smiling. We're splitting hairs here. Because Yoko is also smiling in moments of LET IT BE, and there are photos of her smiling with The Beatles, and also with other celebrities present. And does it really matter whether she smiles or not? Gee whiz, this sounds so clichéd... it's not 1968 anymore. I notice that Pete Shotton was the world's authority on all that's undeniably true about the Beatles (including just exactly how "Eleanor Rigby" was supposedly conceived and written). Regarding the tarot card readings and things, it was both Yoko and John who got into that. Weird to be sure - but it was their mutual thing, if accurate. John didn't care to see his old friends much, even independently of Yoko's influence. Okay, sure while Yoko and John were separated, John then gravitated to others. That happens even within our own circle of friends who aren't famous: they meet a girl, you never see them again because he wants to be with her; when they break up, suddenly the guy is back with the beer buddies. Why should it be different for a John Lennon and Yoko? Yes, but his being dependent on Yoko stemmed from his own needs and childhood traumas; not Yoko trying to manipulate him. A few posts earlier here I've provided John's own audio telling people what he thought of such a charge. That says it all, but of course everyone's ignoring it. ("It doesn't matter how John says he felt; it matters how we say he was"). John's not the first person to have a one-time fling on the side, especially when drunk and devastated about the election result that night. Of course it didn't mean that John didn't still love her, and in fact he was so guilt-stricken that he never stopped apologizing to Yoko for that incident from the day after, and right up until when he died. The guy was human and flawed. In the audio 1980 interview I posted earlier, I love the bit where John says: "That's your problem what you think if Yoko. what I think of her is what counts!". And that says it all right there.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 28, 2017 8:07:29 GMT -5
I'd say John realised Yoko had no real musical ability and learned to live with her below par contributions.. This is so inaccurate that it makes me wonder where fans get some stuff from. On the contrary, John felt that Yoko was some kind of genius artist and he LOVED her music and her "poetic lyrics" (his words) , and her "style". He felt she was way ahead of her time and felt vindicated by her "talents" when he heard acts like the B-52s imitating her. At the time he died he was passionately trying to promote her with a solo project called "Yoko Only", and was infatuated with her "Walking On Thin Ice", playing the tape over and over into the wee hours of the morning. Now you can say John was blinded by love, had lousy taste or was delusional, but no way did he feel her musical contributions were below par, or that he "just learned to live with them". (PS - by the way, the Beatles' true final album was ABBEY ROAD).
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Post by mikev on Mar 28, 2017 8:56:16 GMT -5
I'd say John realised Yoko had no real musical ability and learned to live with her below par contributions.. This is so inaccurate that it makes me wonder where fans get some stuff from. On the contrary, John felt that Yoko was some kind of genius artist and he LOVED her music and her "poetic lyrics" (his words) , and her "style". He felt she was way ahead of her time and felt vindicated by her "talents" when he heard acts like the B-52s imitating her. At the time he died he was passionately trying to promote her with a solo project called "Yoko Only", and was infatuated with her "Walking On Thin Ice", playing the tape over and over into the wee hours of the morning. Now you can say John was blinded by love, had lousy taste or was delusional, but no way did he feel her musical contributions were below par, or that he "just learned to live with them". (PS - by the way, the Beatles' true final album was ABBEY ROAD). I happen to like Walking on Thin Ice...but.... I've said it before...neither Yoko OR Linda would have had a chance in hell to EVER have a record put out recorded with professional musicians in a professional studio without being married to a Beatle. I don't discount bands like the B-52s being influenced by her style, but without John, she would have been an artist and without Paul, Linda a photographer...
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 28, 2017 10:42:31 GMT -5
I wish we could jump in a time machine and go to 1972 and convince John Lennon and Chuck Berry to make an album together of all new, original songs! Those two men were poets and could write lyrics like few others!
And no Elephants Memory or Yoko. They go off and tour on Yoko's newest batch of songs. Chuck Berry brings in the supporting musicians, cats he has worked with for years and who were born to Rock! The album is recorded somewhere down in the South of the USA with no Phil Spector!
That would have been one for the ages! Most dream teams like Paul McCartney and Brian Wilson result in actual disappointments but I think a Chuck Berry and John Lennon album of Rock and Roll songs addressing contemporary issues(but not so literally like John and Yoko's songs on STINYC) would have been a masterpiece, one we would hold up and savor today!
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 28, 2017 21:15:41 GMT -5
The Double Fantasy footage I refer to are still photos I have seen in various books.In some she is actually smiling. We're splitting hairs here. Because Yoko is also smiling in moments of LET IT BE, and there are photos of her smiling with The Beatles, and also with other celebrities present. And does it really matter whether she smiles or not? Gee whiz, this sounds so clichéd... it's not 1968 anymore. I notice that Pete Shotton was the world's authority on all that's undeniably true about the Beatles (including just exactly how "Eleanor Rigby" was supposedly conceived and written). Regarding the tarot card readings and things, it was both Yoko and John who got into that. Weird to be sure - but it was their mutual thing, if accurate. John didn't care to see his old friends much, even independently of Yoko's influence. Okay, sure while Yoko and John were separated, John then gravitated to others. That happens even within our own circle of friends who aren't famous: they meet a girl, you never see them again because he wants to be with her; when they break up, suddenly the guy is back with the beer buddies. Why should it be different for a John Lennon and Yoko? Yes, but his being dependent on Yoko stemmed from his own needs and childhood traumas; not Yoko trying to manipulate him. A few posts earlier here I've provided John's own audio telling people what he thought of such a charge. That says it all, but of course everyone's ignoring it. ("It doesn't matter how John says he felt; it matters how we say he was"). John's not the first person to have a one-time fling on the side, especially when drunk and devastated about the election result that night. Of course it didn't mean that John didn't still love her, and in fact he was so guilt-stricken that he never stopped apologizing to Yoko for that incident from the day after, and right up until when he died. The guy was human and flawed. In the audio 1980 interview I posted earlier, I love the bit where John says: "That's your problem what you think if Yoko. what I think of her is what counts!". And that says it all right there. We'll just agree to disagree on liking Yoko Joe. FWIW; I have run across very few Beatlefans who truly like Yoko other than you and her son Sean. But that's ok. She'll need at least six pallbearers when she leaves this world someday to join John. Looking forward to seeing who the other four are when the day comes....
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 28, 2017 21:21:22 GMT -5
You could tell Chuck was not pleased with the band. . I just found out that the very next year Chuck used Elephant's Memory as his band on his BIO album. That IS perplexing Joe! They sure butchered Johnny B. Goode on The Mike Douglas Show with John. Maybe they did better when they rehearsed!
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 28, 2017 22:35:01 GMT -5
I just found out that the very next year Chuck used Elephant's Memory as his band on his BIO album. That IS perplexing Joe! They sure butchered Johnny B. Goode on The Mike Douglas Show with John. Maybe they did better when they rehearsed! This will probably shock you even more, low. Apparently Yoko does some back-up vocals on the new album Chuck. I guess Chuck realized there was a big overlap in the fan bases. Either that or he knew I liked a good laugh. But seriously, I didn't know Elephants Memory backed him on Bio. I though Joe was kidding until I looked it up.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 29, 2017 5:38:18 GMT -5
We'll just agree to disagree on liking Yoko Joe. Now what does anything I wrote have to do with whether either of us actually "likes" Yoko or not? You can go on hating her all you want just because you wanted Beatle John all to yourself ... but that's your problem. The whole point is, don't just make up bull to support your kneejerk agenda on everything or anything she does. (Or doesn't do). Grow up already. She met John something like 50 years ago and the man's been dead now for near 37. Your precious Beatles are gone, and John wanted Yoko instead - get over it. So in other words you cannot discuss a single point I've made, so instead need to come up with outrageous crap like this. I bet you just can't wait until Yoko dies, huh? Maybe you'll be the first to volunteer as a grave digger. Lord knows you've already got a head start at digging up a lot of dirt. So just to sink to your level here and play along: I have never said I "like" Yoko; merely that I understand and support John Lennon's need for her, and this do not unconditionally look for things to bash her, as a true fan of his. Therefore I am not going to automatically criticize every breath the woman takes, simply for the sake of doing so. But don't worry, as unlike yourself I have refreshingly come across many true fair-minded fans who have accepted JohnandYoko, as I see them in lots of internet discussions when they're not afraid to speak up for fear of castigation. They are the real fans in my opinion (and John's too, if you listen to his 1980 audio interview) who understand John Lennon and appreciate that she made him happy, and who like that he was happy. There are more than enough of us out there to support Yoko's casket, so don't worry about that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 5:46:56 GMT -5
I'd say John realised Yoko had no real musical ability and learned to live with her below par contributions.. This is so inaccurate that it makes me wonder where fans get some stuff from. On the contrary, John felt that Yoko was some kind of genius artist and he LOVED her music and her "poetic lyrics" (his words) , and her "style". He felt she was way ahead of her time and felt vindicated by her "talents" when he heard acts like the B-52s imitating her. At the time he died he was passionately trying to promote her with a solo project called "Yoko Only", and was infatuated with her "Walking On Thin Ice", playing the tape over and over into the wee hours of the morning. Now you can say John was blinded by love, had lousy taste or was delusional, but no way did he feel her musical contributions were below par, or that he "just learned to live with them". (PS - by the way, the Beatles' true final album was ABBEY ROAD). You've always been a big Yoko supporter Joe. In this case though you are stretching reality a little too far Although she might have been artistic, in a novel way, hence her Avant Garde leanings, a field created for the keen but not so talented, she definitely wasn't anything special musically. You only need to listen to her, objectively, to conclude that. And, it seems you stretched reality twice in the in the one post.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 29, 2017 5:56:15 GMT -5
I happen to like Walking on Thin Ice...but.... Just think how many other Yoko songs you might be surprised you enjoy if you gave them a chance. I don't care how or why the recordings happened, if I wind up liking some songs. John called her lyrics "poetic", and I am inclined to agree in many cases. She could really write songs after awhile, regardless of whoever started her, or how. Too many people (many of them not ever having even heard any of her music - and I'm not saying that is you, Mike, as obviously you've heard some) just automatically join the stereotype: "Yoko? Ugh, all she does is scream" (just before they go into their limited croaking and screeching imitation). The other day in my record store I was playing the song "My Man", and a young guy asked me who that was because he really enjoyed it. When I told him who it was, he couldn't believe it. He said: "That's Yoko? I thought all she did was scream?". This past Christmas, a good friend of mine played the B-Side of "Happy Xmas (War Is Over)" for only his first time ever. It was Yoko's "Listen, the Snow Is Falling", which he had never dared spin before throughout his life. He absolutely loved this beautiful son, and says he'll now play it every Christmas. Does it matter at all that it would never have been in existence unless Yoko had met John? And without John Lennon having met Paul McCartney in 1957, there would never have been a John Lennon. So? What do the origins or reasons why a record happens matter in the end? I'm glad to have Linda's harmonies to accentuate albums like RAM and with Wings, no matter what the privileged details were of her getting the gig. While I do not appreciate all of Yoko's music, I like some of it that's sung instead of screamed, and am glad to have those ones - regardless of her having married a Beatle to have them made. Sonny Bono made Cher... there would never have been a Cher without Sonny, but that's all moot when all that matters is she made some nice records. And then later, when she became an Academy Award winning actress with movies like MOONSTRUCK.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 29, 2017 6:05:33 GMT -5
This is so inaccurate that it makes me wonder where fans get some stuff from. On the contrary, John felt that Yoko was some kind of genius artist and he LOVED her music and her "poetic lyrics" (his words) , and her "style". He felt she was way ahead of her time and felt vindicated by her "talents" when he heard acts like the B-52s imitating her. At the time he died he was passionately trying to promote her with a solo project called "Yoko Only", and was infatuated with her "Walking On Thin Ice", playing the tape over and over into the wee hours of the morning. Now you can say John was blinded by love, had lousy taste or was delusional, but no way did he feel her musical contributions were below par, or that he "just learned to live with them". (PS - by the way, the Beatles' true final album was ABBEY ROAD). You've always been a big Yoko supporter Joe. In this case though you are stretching reality a little too far Although she might have been artistic, in a novel way, hence her Avant Garde leanings, a field created for the keen but not so talented, she definitely wasn't anything special musically. You only need to listen to her, objectively, to conclude that. And, it seems you stretched reality twice in the in the one post. I support Yoko because John loved her and was happy with her, and I wanted that for him. I don't disrespect both Yoko and indirectly John by bashing her, denying Lennon his own happiness just because I'm selfish and wanted "more Beatles music". I think the B-52's, Lene Lovich, and others would disagree with your opinion that she wasn't anything special musically. I disagree with you in that I think if one is truly objective when listening to more of Yoko's stuff, they will find some melodic and decent things they are surprised to enjoy. Not all or most, certainly - but some. Not sure what reality you think I've stretched, as it was all facts. The fact was, John Lennon - right or wrong - loved Yoko's work; he did not "just learn to live with it", which you claimed. You have no idea what you're talking about there, frankly. And a fan really ought to know that basic truth and needn't have to search for it, as it's blatantly obvious. Also factual is that ABBEY ROAD was the final recorded Beatles album. Just because you personally love LET IT BE and it was the last record that got released (backwards and out of sequence), this does not make it the Beatles' final album. Nor does the tidbit that 3 of the 4 members went back to polish up some details on it in early 1970 change the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 7:02:48 GMT -5
You've always been a big Yoko supporter Joe. In this case though you are stretching reality a little too far Although she might have been artistic, in a novel way, hence her Avant Garde leanings, a field created for the keen but not so talented, she definitely wasn't anything special musically. You only need to listen to her, objectively, to conclude that. And, it seems you stretched reality twice in the in the one post. I support Yoko because John loved her and was happy with her, and I wanted that for him. I don't disrespect both Yoko and indirectly John by bashing her, and instead denying Lennon is own happiness just because I'm selfish and wanted "more Beatles music". I think the B-52's, Lene Lovich, and others would disagree with your opinion that she wasn't anything special musically. I disagree with you in that I think if one is truly objective when listening to more of Yoko's stuff, they will find some melodic and decent things they are surprised to enjoy. Not all or most, certainly - but some. Not sure what reality you think I've stretched, as it was all facts. The fact was, John Lennon - right or wrong - loved Yoko's work; he did not "just learn to live with it", which you claimed. You have no idea what you're talking about there, frankly. And a fan really ought to know that basic truth and needn't have to search for it, as it's blatantly obvious. Also factual is that ABBEY ROAD was the final recorded Beatles album. Just because you personally love LET IT BE and it was the last record that got released (backwards and out of sequence), this does not make it the Beatles' final album. Nor does the tidbit that 3 of the 4 members went back to polish up some details on it in early 1970 change the truth. You are concentrating on John's thoughts on Yoko to promote Yoko's music, they are blinkered thoughts. The reality was she wasn't that musical, even Jack Douglas said she tended to sing flat, and i don't mean flat on her back, which was how she did the vocals on one of her DF songs. If you work on an album in 1970, prior to it's release, how does it become the album before the one released in 1969. That always has me baffled. Ron Howard knows which was the final album. So does the author of this quote, "Let It Be is the twelfth and final studio album by the English rock band the Beatles".
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Post by mikev on Mar 29, 2017 7:23:59 GMT -5
I happen to like Walking on Thin Ice...but.... Just think how many other Yoko songs you might be surprised you enjoy if you gave them a chance. I don't care how or why the recordings happened, if I wind up liking some songs. John called her lyrics "poetic", and I am inclined to agree in many cases. She could really write songs after awhile, regardless of whoever started her, or how. Too many people (many of them not ever having even heard any of her music - and I'm not saying that is you, Mike, as obviously you've heard some) just automatically join the stereotype: "Yoko? Ugh, all she does is scream" (just before they go into their limited croaking and screeching imitation). The other day in my record store I was playing the song "My Man", and a young guy asked me who that was because he really enjoyed it. When I told him who it was, he couldn't believe it. He said: "That's Yoko? I thought all she did was scream?". This past Christmas, a good friend of mine played the B-Side of "Happy Xmas (War Is Over)" for only his first time ever. It was Yoko's "Listen, the Snow Is Falling", which he had never dared spin before throughout his life. He absolutely loved this beautiful son, and says he'll now play it every Christmas. Does it matter at all that it would never have been in existence unless Yoko had met John? And without John Lennon having met Paul McCartney in 1957, there would never have been a John Lennon. So? What do the origins or reasons why a record happens matter in the end? I'm glad to have Linda's harmonies to accentuate albums like RAM and with Wings, no matter what the privileged details were of her getting the gig. While I do not appreciate all of Yoko's music, I like some of it that's sung instead of screamed, and am glad to have those ones - regardless of her having married a Beatle to have them made. Sonny Bono made Cher... there would never have been a Cher without Sonny, but that's all moot when all that matters is she made some nice records. And then later, when she became an Academy Award winning actress with movies like MOONSTRUCK. Your last paragraph actually brings home my point. John Lennon and Paul McCartney together became magic because there was talent involved and got to shine once they got a break. Cher made it big because there was talent involved and got to shine once she got that break. I don't deny that Yoko influenced the B 52s...and I actually enjoy Linda's harmonies on Ram, but you can't put them in the same paragraph as three legends you mention. If anything, Sonny was the Yoko or Linda of that duo though he obviously was a great songwriter-producer-showman-politician LOL...
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 29, 2017 8:39:48 GMT -5
The reality was she wasn't that musical, even Jack Douglas said she tended to sing flat, and i don't mean flat on her back, which was how she did the vocals on one of her DF songs. So do you rely on Jack Douglas to dictate for you which kind of music you like or not? I don't care what Jack Douglas thinks about Yoko's supposed lack of musical ability any more than I care what John Lennon thought of Yoko's supposed talents; all I care about is how "I" like it, or not - MY ears. The reality was also that when DOUBLE FANTASY was first released, some critics actually noted that Yoko's songs were stronger than John's. Yoko was sounding more New Wave and Modern, while John tended to sound like a 1950s retro. Three of the four Beatles fine tuning the song "I Me Mine" in 1970 does not make that whole album the Beatles' "last". It makes it the last song they tinkered with. By your logic, then ANTHOLOGY is truly "the final Beatles album" because three of the four returned to tinker on songs. And it's hilarious that you cite Ron Howard as some kind of authority. The reason his film closes with the rooftop concert was a dramatic touch to convey the final time The Beatles played LIVE. I guess George Martin, Mark Lewisohn, and The Beatles themselves explaining that ABBEY ROAD is their last album doesn't phase you. The final album released, yes. The Beatles' recording history officially ended with the song "The End". Not "Get Back".
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 29, 2017 12:08:30 GMT -5
That IS perplexing Joe! They sure butchered Johnny B. Goode on The Mike Douglas Show with John. Maybe they did better when they rehearsed! This will probably shock you even more, low. Apparently Yoko does some back-up vocals on the new album Chuck. I guess Chuck realized there was a big overlap in the fan bases. Either that or he knew I liked a good laugh. But seriously, I didn't know Elephants Memory backed him on Bio. I though Joe was kidding until I looked it up. Me too! Can't wait to hear those back-ups from an 80+ year old screecher. Boy, I bet they would make the needle jump on a vinyl recording......
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 29, 2017 12:28:07 GMT -5
We'll just agree to disagree on liking Yoko Joe. Now what does anything I wrote have to do with whether either of us actually "likes" Yoko or not? You can go on hating her all you want just because you wanted Beatle John all to yourself ... but that's your problem. The whole point is, don't just make up bull to support your kneejerk agenda on everything or anything she does. (Or doesn't do). Grow up already. She met John something like 50 years ago and the man's been dead now for near 37. Your precious Beatles are gone, and John wanted Yoko instead - get over it. So in other words you cannot discuss a single point I've made, so instead need to come up with outrageous crap like this. I bet you just can't wait until Yoko dies, huh? Maybe you'll be the first to volunteer as a grave digger. Lord knows you've already got a head start at digging up a lot of dirt. So just to sink to your level here and play along: I have never said I "like" Yoko; merely that I understand and support John Lennon's need for her, and this do not unconditionally look for things to bash her, as a true fan of his. Therefore I am not going to automatically criticize every breath the woman takes, simply for the sake of doing so. But don't worry, as unlike yourself I have refreshingly come across many true fair-minded fans who have accepted JohnandYoko, as I see them in lots of internet discussions when they're not afraid to speak up for fear of castigation. They are the real fans in my opinion (and John's too, if you listen to his 1980 audio interview) who understand John Lennon and appreciate that she made him happy, and who like that he was happy. There are more than enough of us out there to support Yoko's casket, so don't worry about that. Well! I certainly got my head handed to me!! Thanks for sinking to my level Joe! Does that mean you don't "like" her too? That is, after all, the gist of my entire post. A simple yes or no would have been just fine! Threw a little gallows humour in there just to point out I will be curious who really does "like" her. I get all your points Joe. No need to discuss them. That is your view! I didn't realize I wanted Beatle John all to myself! However, in a great dream I once had though, all four were at my front door, and it was John who invited me to join the band as their lead singer! So I kind of took that to mean he liked me! My precious Beatles are never gone thanks to the records! I like you though Joe! And your passion for your arguments! Go get 'em! The Beatles are indeed precious. Thought we might agree on that point... And Yoko? Well, I still don't like her much, even if John loved her. I don't wish she was dead. But if I am still around when she passes, I think I'll skip the service.... Oh almost forgot; I really don't know many Beatlefans that like her. That is the God's honest truth!
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 29, 2017 17:54:26 GMT -5
Apparently Yoko does some back-up vocals on the new album Chuck. I guess Chuck realized there was a big overlap in the fan bases. Either that or he knew I liked a good laugh. But seriously, I didn't know Elephants Memory backed him on Bio. I though Joe was kidding until I looked it up. Just to remove all doubt, I'm completely kidding that Yoko will be on the new album. I wrote that when it seemed completely ridiculous; before I knew EM was really on Bio. I like Yoko and her music just fine. With the exception of Watching the Wheels, I thought her songs were better on Double Fantasy. That said, she doesn't need to be anywhere near Chuck Berry!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 5:53:45 GMT -5
The reality was she wasn't that musical, even Jack Douglas said she tended to sing flat, and i don't mean flat on her back, which was how she did the vocals on one of her DF songs. So do you rely on Jack Douglas to dictate for you which kind of music you like or not? I don't care what Jack Douglas thinks about Yoko's supposed lack of musical ability any more than I care what John Lennon thought of Yoko's supposed talents; all I care about is how "I" like it, or not - MY ears. The reality was also that when DOUBLE FANTASY was first released, some critics actually noted that Yoko's songs were stronger than John's. Yoko was sounding more New Wave and Modern, while John tended to sound like a 1950s retro. Three of the four Beatles fine tuning the song "I Me Mine" in 1970 does not make that whole album the Beatles' "last". It makes it the last song they tinkered with. By your logic, then ANTHOLOGY is truly "the final Beatles album" because three of the four returned to tinker on songs. And it's hilarious that you cite Ron Howard as some kind of authority. The reason his film closes with the rooftop concert was a dramatic touch to convey the final time The Beatles played LIVE. I guess George Martin, Mark Lewisohn, and The Beatles themselves explaining that ABBEY ROAD is their last album doesn't phase you. The final album released, yes. The Beatles' recording history officially ended with the song "The End". Not "Get Back". There is a reason Yoko wasn't overly successful as a musical artist, she just wasn't very good, even with the assistance of some seriously talented, musical people. The B52's could sing, that's one huge advantage they had over Yoko. Ron Howard didn't just blow smoke out of his rear, he did his research then quoted the facts. One day, so might you Joe, wouldn't that be a revelation.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 30, 2017 6:23:44 GMT -5
There is a reason Yoko wasn't overly successful as a musical artist, she just wasn't very good, even with the assistance of some seriously talented, musical people. Music was not her strong suit, of course. Yet she did somehow manage to make some nice songs that you don't bother to listen to, in order to find out. Ridiculous. There are lots of musically talented people who don't ever get a success, by the way . It's as much about luck and timing as it is about natural talent. Finding a quality in someone's singing or vocal style is entirely subjective. Sometimes an offbeat singing style makes the song (as with Bob Dylan). Though I enjoyed his EIGHT DAYS A WEEK project, Ron Howard - much like you, in fact - came off in general as a small fry when it comes to Beatles knowledge, and actually knows very little. It's pathetic when you talk about "facts and research", and then foolishly say that LET IT BE was the last album the Beatles recorded together. And when you also totally ignore the facts as stated by Mark Lewisohn (a true researcher and historian if ever there was one), George Martin, and even The Beatles themselves. Go ask them what their last group album is and they'll tell you ABBEY ROAD - not your incomprehensibly personal favorite, LET IT BE. I gave you a whole slew of facts and solid points. You choose to ignore them because you don't want to accept them.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 30, 2017 6:53:47 GMT -5
Well! I certainly got my head handed to me!! Thanks for sinking to my level Joe! Does that mean you don't "like" her too? That is, after all, the gist of my entire post. A simple yes or no would have been just fine! I don't know Yoko personally. I did meet her twice outside the Dakota in 1994, and she was all smiles to the fans, perfectly gracious, posed for photos and signed autographs. I think she takes excellent care of John's legacy (unlike Olivia Harrison with George) and has kept him alive in the minds of people during the past three decades. She seems a decent person (if naïve) who is concerned with peace, luv, all that. She seems okay to me, just that some jealous fans still can't get over the fact that she's a stern-looking, unconventional Asian woman with odd ideas about art, who John Lennon became interested in over their precious Beatles. Well, that's what discussion is all about. I feel that when people are painted into a corner they usually decide to opt out. All the same, it's an insult to John to insult his wife. Listen to that audio clip several posts back. Don't ignore it because you don't want to know. That's fine, because I'll be doing a tribute for her on my channel if I'm here when she passes. But it seems mighty odd to me to boast wanting to "skip the service" when she has not done anything to you personally and - in fact - made John Lennon happy for the first real time in his life. I'm dying to hear how you'll respond to this next portion, if you choose to: I am a Chuck Berry fan myself. I own his records, and I made a tribute to him. So let us get that straight, first thing..
However, if you want to get into some ugly personal details about him, he was not a nice person at all to many musicians who knew him. Chuck was arrested for armed robbery, spent time in jail. He violated underage girls. He bought a restaurant just so he could install cameras in them to spy on women in the ladies' rooms. Supposedly there were tapes recorded by Berry where he was obsessed with the excrement left in the toilets. The tapes were said to be painstakingly edited to linger on certain deposits, depending on how intriguing. So my point is, I don't want to hear about the "negatives" of Yoko Ono and how "she's not worth the funeral service" when you seem to have no trouble overlooking the acts above by Mr. Berry. Now, let me see... if John had met Chuck in the 1960s and turned away from The Beatles in order to form a bond with Chuck instead ... would those nasty things suddenly matter to ya? Something to ponder. Though I already think I know the answer. Doesn't surprise me. Most people are rather shallow. I've found that more open-minded fans who truly loved and respected John and understood why he wanted Yoko are out there as well, on the 'net and at the Beatlefest. They might not like her but they'll accept her for John's sake. I would say those who actively dislike or hate her do so because they're mad that John became more interested in her and less interested in The Beatles. There is no other reason, except that she was rather unusual and odd. People often hate and lash out at what they can't understand.
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