Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 7:25:20 GMT -5
There is a reason Yoko wasn't overly successful as a musical artist, she just wasn't very good, even with the assistance of some seriously talented, musical people. Music was not her strong suit, of course. Yet she did somehow manage to make some nice songs that you don't bother to listen to, in order to find out. Ridiculous. There are lots of musically talented people who don't ever get a success, by the way . It's as much about luck and timing as it is about natural talent. Finding a quality in someone's singing or vocal style is entirely subjective. Sometimes an offbeat singing style makes the song (as with Bob Dylan). Though I enjoyed his EIGHT DAYS A WEEK project, Ron Howard - much like you, in fact - came off in general as a small fry when it comes to Beatles knowledge, and actually knows very little. It's pathetic when you talk about "facts and research", and then foolishly say that LET IT BE was the last album the Beatles recorded together. And when you also totally ignore the facts as stated by Mark Lewisohn (a true researcher and historian if ever there was one), George Martin, and even The Beatles themselves. Go ask them what their last group album is and they'll tell you ABBEY ROAD - not your incomprehensibly personal favorite, LET IT BE. I gave you a whole slew of facts and solid points. You choose to ignore them because you don't want to accept them. Quite a patronising dude when you don't have much basis to your arguments.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 30, 2017 7:37:21 GMT -5
Music was not her strong suit, of course. Yet she did somehow manage to make some nice songs that you don't bother to listen to, in order to find out. Ridiculous. There are lots of musically talented people who don't ever get a success, by the way . It's as much about luck and timing as it is about natural talent. Finding a quality in someone's singing or vocal style is entirely subjective. Sometimes an offbeat singing style makes the song (as with Bob Dylan). Though I enjoyed his EIGHT DAYS A WEEK project, Ron Howard - much like you, in fact - came off in general as a small fry when it comes to Beatles knowledge, and actually knows very little. It's pathetic when you talk about "facts and research", and then foolishly say that LET IT BE was the last album the Beatles recorded together. And when you also totally ignore the facts as stated by Mark Lewisohn (a true researcher and historian if ever there was one), George Martin, and even The Beatles themselves. Go ask them what their last group album is and they'll tell you ABBEY ROAD - not your incomprehensibly personal favorite, LET IT BE. I gave you a whole slew of facts and solid points. You choose to ignore them because you don't want to accept them. Quite a patronising dude when you don't have much basis to your arguments. Wow, you truly have "No Reply". 'Dude' .
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 30, 2017 7:42:14 GMT -5
Well! I certainly got my head handed to me!! Thanks for sinking to my level Joe! Does that mean you don't "like" her too? That is, after all, the gist of my entire post. A simple yes or no would have been just fine! I don't know Yoko personally. I did meet her twice outside the Dakota in 1994, and she was all smiles to the fans, perfectly gracious, posed for photos and signed autographs. I think she takes excellent care of John's legacy (unlike Olivia Harrison with George) and has kept him alive in the minds of people during the past three decades. She seems a decent person (if naïve) who is concerned with peace, luv, all that. She seems okay to me, just that some jealous fans still can't get over the fact that she's a stern-looking, unconventional Asian woman with odd ideas about art, who John Lennon became interested in over their precious Beatles. Well, that's what discussion is all about. I feel that when people are painted into a corner they usually decide to opt out. All the same, it's an insult to John to insult his wife. Listen to that audio clip several posts back. Don't ignore it because you don't want to know. That's fine, because I'll be doing a tribute for her on my channel if I'm here when she passes. But it seems mighty odd to me to boast wanting to "skip the service" when she has not done anything to you personally and - in fact - made John Lennon happy for the first real time in his life. One other thing, and I'm dying to hear how you'll respond to this, if you choose to: I am a Chuck Berry fan myself. I own his records, and I made a tribute to him. So let us get that straight, first thing.. However, if you want to get into some ugly personal details about him, he was not a nice person at all to many musicians who knew him. Chuck was arrested for armed robbery, spent time in jail. He violated underage girls. He bought a restaurant just so he could install cameras in them to spy on women in the ladies' rooms. These things are worse than anything Yoko might have done. So my point is, I don't want to hear about the "evils" of Yoko Ono and how "she's not worth the funeral service", when you seem to have no trouble overlooking the acts above by Mr. Berry. Now, let me see... if John had met him in the 1960s and turned away from The Beatles in order to form a bond with Chuck... would those nasty things suddenly matter to ya? Something to ponder. Though I already know the answer. Doesn't surprise me. Most people are rather shallow. Maybe you need to get out more. I've found that more open-minded fans who truly loved and respected John and understood why he wanted Yoko are out there as well, on the 'net and at the Beatlefest. They might not like her but they accept her for John's sake. I would say those who actively dislike or hate her do so because they're mad that John became more interested in her and less interested in The Beatles. There is no other reason, except that she was rather unusual and odd. People often hate and lash out what they can't understand. Totally agree with you that Chuck Berry as a human being had some major flaws. But at the same time he was a gifted musician who was part of the beginning of rock & roll music. I probably would not like the guy personally, but he was talented. I cannot agree with you that Yoko was not responsible for contributing to the conflicts that helped disolve the relationship amoung The Beatles around the breakup period. There were also many other issues as well that caused the breakup, but she was also part of the problems. John was very vulnerable in that period mostly due to his heavy drug use. But he was always desperately in search of a woman to replace not Cynthia, but his mother Julia. Yoko filled that role at the same time she showed evidence that she influenced John on his role in the band. I know you don't see it that way and that is fine. Your arguments dictate your view of Yoko. You see her differently than me. Am I wrong and you are right? No. We just see things differently. The discussion of how Yoko viewed The Beatles is endless. So is how much she influenced John. Of course John said he was his own man in all his decisions during that era. But his drug use and his relationship with Yoko affected his decisions. I respect your views and opinions Joe. I have mine. It is not important that I change your mind. I am a Beatlefan. Of The Beatles. Of that era. They are precious to me. Or rather their music is precious. Yoko is a footnote to The Beatles. A big footnote, but a footnote nonetheless. Nothing more.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 30, 2017 7:47:57 GMT -5
Can't wait to hear those back-ups from an 80+ year old screecher. Boy, I bet they would make the needle jump on a vinyl recording...... We all know Yoko is not going to be on the upcoming Chuck Berry record. But just to show how I can debunk you not once, but twice if this were true: 1.) Typical stereotype from those who know nothing; Yoko also sings on records, not just "screech". 2.) The needle would probably already be jumping on a vinyl record because Chuck Berry is a 90+ yr-old doing Rock N Roll. Compared to him, an 80+ Yoko is a baby.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 30, 2017 8:05:54 GMT -5
Totally agree with you that Chuck Berry as a human being had some major flaws. But at the same time he was a gifted musician who was part of the beginning of rock & roll music. I probably would not like the guy personally, but he was talented. Abstract and avant garde art is not usually understood, but within that society Yoko was deemed talented as well. (Just like a lot of Rock n Roll hating parents of the '50s would not likely consider Chuck Berry or Elvis Presley talented). I would also say Yoko could write poetic lyrics (John agreed, and said that his biggest song of all time, IMAGINE, was inspired by her). There are actually a lot of Yoko songs which are beautiful and melodic in her catalogue, but blind hatred for her by fans prevents them from even wanting to consider such a thing. But at least you say you probably wouldn't like Chuck personally. But what I'm wondering is, why say "I'll skip the Yoko service" for Yoko, but not Chuck? You mean solely because you liked Chuck's music but not Yoko's? Is it the music between these two people -- or does it run more personally? If it's more personality, that's where I'm noting an inconsistency. Hold on a minute. I have never felt that Yoko was never a "factor" in the Beatles' breakup. She was - and so was the death of Brian Epstein, George growing as a songwriter, Allen Klein coming in, business squabbles, and on and on. The four Beatles themselves have always maintained this themselves; what is wrong is when fans are looking for someone to blame, so they instinctively generalize: "Yoko Ono Broke Up The Beatles!!" . Yoko may have contributed to the Beatles' conflicts, but they were having troubles even if there hadn't been a Yoko. OK, so we are in agreement. But the reason for my "defense" is that Yoko always gets all the blame. She's an easy target. Still, I note again the "resentment" here that the Beatles broke up. I have always thought it was the perfect time for The Beatles to break up, and that they went on to have four interesting solo careers, They became something of a mythical legend due to ending at the right time on top, rather than descending into mediocrity. Yet for some fans like yourself, all they really want is "Beatles". Therein lies the differences, and the stereotypical bashing of Yoko. You're wrong about me. Of course I realize that John needed a strong woman in his life and a "mother" figure (hell, he even called Yoko "Mother"). That is always why I've tried to tell Yoko-hating "fans" of John's that they ought to respect this and realize that John needed to be with Yoko. And accept her, if they love John. They have the audacity to feel THEY know what's best for their Beatle John when it came to love, rather than John himself.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 30, 2017 16:35:58 GMT -5
However, if you want to get into some ugly personal details about him, he was not a nice person at all to many musicians who knew him. Chuck was arrested for armed robbery, spent time in jail. He violated underage girls. He bought a restaurant just so he could install cameras in them to spy on women in the ladies' rooms. Supposedly there were tapes recorded by Berry where he was obsessed with the excrement left in the toilets. The tapes were said to be painstakingly edited to linger on certain deposits, depending on how intriguing. I started to say "Whatever rings your ding-a-ling...." but I had to stop myself.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 30, 2017 16:48:46 GMT -5
I guess Chuck was interested in thenewno2.
He liked it when a girl dumped him.
Great song here!
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Post by stavros on Mar 30, 2017 16:50:17 GMT -5
Strange how a tribute to Chuck Berry turned into a debate about Yoko. But there you go. This one of the most spirited debates on here for a while. First of all,Chuck Berry. He was a bit before my time to be honest but I appreciate his contribution to rock 'n roll if not some of his later indiscretions. As regards Yoko, well I have always been intrigued by her unseen influence in the Beatles story. I long suspected she tried to distance John from his pals with the move to New York and had also been the major reason why there had been no Beatles reunion in the 1970s. Maybe that is actually true? It brings me back to this thread I started all of 7 years ago now : Yoko's influence and it's consequencesHowever Yoko was certainly not the only reason for the end of the Beatles. After listening to a couple of John's last interviews especially this one I then realized that John was a really happy, relaxed guy by 1980. He was really positive about being 40, about the Beatles, even crediting 'Woman' as a Beatles song. But he'd also moved on. He was listening to the modern bands like Madness, B52s, Lene Lovich and heard Yoko's influence on the latter two. Unless it was all an act then he was really in a good place. Yoko was upbeat too during those interviews. It seemed they'd both taken stock and were looking forward to the 1980s and beyond. Wherever that may lead them. He was hinting about touring and returning to Britain. I think Yoko had, perhaps, decided to snag a Beatle back in the 1960s as a vehicle to promote her own artistic ventures. That is if I am being totally cynical. Her music is what it is. Her art is what it is. Extremely limited in it's popularity and appeal. But John eventually decided she was his soul mate. Ultimately Beatles fans want Beatles music. Yet it wasn't Yoko that ended that dream forever in 1980. And I think that is where many frustrations lie. In a world where many of the major bands of the late 20th century have reformed it always seems unfair that we never got a full and proper Beatles re-union in the 1980s or 1990s (or even a solo John Lennon continuing to make music). None of that is Yoko's fault.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 30, 2017 17:45:32 GMT -5
Strange how a tribute to Chuck Berry turned into a debate about Yoko. But there you go. Honestly, I figured that would occur as soon as someone were to mention the TV appearance between John and Chuck in 1972. The talk on that historic teaming is never about Lennon/Berry, and it always turns ugly to Yoko "sabotaging the moment".
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Post by mikev on Mar 31, 2017 7:59:45 GMT -5
Strange how a tribute to Chuck Berry turned into a debate about Yoko. But there you go. Honestly, I figured that would occur as soon as someone were to mention the TV appearance between John and Chuck in 1972. The talk on that historic teaming is never about Lennon/Berry, and it always turns ugly to Yoko "sabotaging the moment". To borrow a NBA line..."Wail Don't Lie"...
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