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Post by Panther on Jul 21, 2012 11:58:35 GMT -5
By chance, I ended up (re-)watching the Imagine John & Yoko doc on YouTube recently -- I mean the one filmed during the making of the album, in summer 1971. I hadn't seen many of the clips since I was in Junior High school or something.
What do y'all make of the Imagine album itself? I first heard it, in full, on CD when I was 18 years old (this was in summer '94). Loved it then and now. Here in Tokyo, I've just bought it on vinyl... it hangs on my wall, in fact.
I really like this album, well-worn as it is. I think it maintains the late 60s/early 70s classic rock vibe (i.e., long-haired hippies with idealism, commitment to the blues, straight production without frills), and is the last capture of the highest level of John's erratic genius before he got distracted by the USA, green cards, Yoko problems, and boredom. John himself noted that several of the songs had been kicking around since 1970, and Beatle-fans know that 'Jealous Guy' is a re-write of 'Child of Nature' from early 1968, and that 'Gimme Some Truth' was also a Beatle-era track. I'm guessing that 'It's So Hard' and 'Oh My Love' -- and maybe 'How' -- had been around since during or before the Plastic Ono Band songs were written.
Song-by-song: Imagine -- all-time classic, and I've sort-of rediscovered it in the past year or so for pure enjoyment. I really dig the lyrics, man, and what a brilliant melody. Crippled Inside -- wonderful, jaunty song, that probably gets overlooked a bit because it's performed so tongue-in-cheek and seems slight compared to the more famous songs that frame it. I love this track to bits. Jealous Guy -- minor classic, and a stand-out on its own. Perfectly captured, with the whistling being oh so nice. It's So Hard -- I love this song, but in retrospect the horns (recorded in New York after the sessions were wrapped) are a harbinger of the hammy Elephant's Memory sound to come soon... still a great, jaunty R&B track, though. I Don't Want to be a Soldier -- good, tough blues, improved greatly by George Harrison's guitar, but a bit overlong. (Appropriately placed at the end of one vinyl side -- a benefit lost in the CD era.)
Gimme Some Truth -- great song, and a nice enough recording, but I always felt it could have 'swung' a bit more. The track seems kind of leaden. Oh My Love -- Lovely, wonderful recording. Similar vibe to 'Look at Me' on the previous record. Definitely a feeling of having come off drugs about it... How Do You Sleep? -- very good song musically, but obviously a lyrical minefield. I enjoy it. With John, you take the pettiness along with the Agape love. How? -- I really like this track. Sums up the insecurities of John and a generation. The final note -- George Martin-like -- is cheesy, but perfect. Oh Yoko! -- Great track, with a unique feel. Dreamlike, but also fast and bouncy. Love the busker harmonica at the end -- perfect capper to the LP.
(Anyone notice that the final 3 tracks all feature punctuation?)
Overall assessment: Near-perfect solo Beatle-LP, especially in terms of commercial appeal to both the aficionado and the mainstream drone. John's most commercially successful album, and -- I would say -- his 2nd best, after Plastic Ono Band (amazingly, released just 9 months earlier).
John himself later said the strings (the 'sugarcoating') might have been overdone on this album. I don't agree -- I think they're used perfectly and in good taste. My only reservations about Imagine would be (a) that the 10 songs are perhaps a bit too mid-tempo -- the album could use a bit more fast-paced energy at times; and (b) Lennon's vocals, while still great overall, are nowhere near his best. In particular, the quality of the vocals pales in comparison to the previous album, probably due to this record being rush-recorded, at home.
Thoughts?
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 21, 2012 13:36:07 GMT -5
First, I really agree with and like your statement, panther: "...and is the last capture of the highest level of John's erratic genius before he got distracted by the USA, green cards, Yoko problems, and boredom."I don't believe in the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame and think it is a tourist trap along the interstate(and I drove by it June 14, 2012 at about 12:30 a.m.) but when people question why John Lennon is in as a solo artist the answer is "Give Peace A Chance," "Cold Turkey," "Instant Karma(We All Shine On)" and the albums Plastic Ono Band and Imagine. All of these were obviously John's early solo efforts as panther has noted that John was to get caught up in things occurring outside of his own head but these are musical efforts an artist could hang his hat on and be in any damn Hall of Fame. They are that good and culturally important. Imagine is more diverse than POB in sound but may be even more radical in lyrics. But there is something for every fan in it and more. The song "Imagine" has become the premier Rock and Roll(or Pop) anthem played or performed after every man-made or natural disaster and rightly so. I think all fans take it for granted at some point in our journey but then come back to it. It may be old hat to some but this one song keeps Paul McCartney from completely burying(whether intentional or not on Macca's part) John's musical legacy. I feel that John's song "Imagine" is a more important and loved song today by the different generations than all of Paul's songs put together. And as the song "Imagine" anchors the album, it ensures that Imagine the album will be important and never forgotten. I quit pushing my musical taste on young people after I burned my stepsons out on The Beatles but I would gladly steer a young person to the Imagine album with the caveat that it was the highwater mark of John's solo career and be prepared for the highs and lows of John's subsequent music but a good start for the young listener before going backwards to the majestic but brutal Plastic Ono Band. panther, I can't add or improve on your song-by-song thoughts as they mirror my exact thoughts on each track. I want to note that I have from first hearing this album in late 1976 or early 1977 loved "How?" as among my favorite for the very reasons you write. Isn't is cool that so much of this album was professionally filmed while John was making it? I would love a dvd comp of all the studio filming. No conceptual stuff of walking in fog or scenes at Ascot other than in the recording studio. Gimme Some Truth dvd is of that ilk but I bet it doesn't have everything from the studio and I want to watch everything! Imagine the album suffers with Beatles fans because of "How Do You Sleep?" as that song causes outright anger in some fans and perhaps we will read about that in this Thread. I think one needs to take panther's approach and recognize the brilliance of the song albeit some just plain wrong assertions in the lyrics. Some critics have got hung-up on it too I guess. John is human and can be in error on some of his charges in the song but HDYS is still a powerful, emotional song, warts and all. The song enhances the album for me. It is a strong deep cut. In 2012 it is easy to forget how draining John's immigration fight was. Throw in his 18 month separation from Yoko and one can better understand how John got rather lost musically. The album Imagine shows what John could do when he was focused(as much as John could ever be) and in a semi-stable environment!
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Post by sayne on Jul 21, 2012 19:13:37 GMT -5
. . . I feel that John's song "Imagine" is a more important and loved song today by the different generations than all of Paul's songs put together . . . Anyone? Anyone? ;D
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Post by nicole21290 on Jul 21, 2012 20:28:38 GMT -5
. . . I feel that John's song "Imagine" is a more important and loved song today by the different generations than all of Paul's songs put together . . . Anyone? Anyone? ;D Ha. No argument from me. There's no question as to the iconic status it has received (and rightly so) over the years. Personally, I find it a tad too idealistic and simplistic in message for my taste but it is definitely a GREAT song. John generally works with his songs to make them universal - addressing the whole world - or incredibly personal - some only applicable to his very specific situation. Anyway, I would agree with the above assertion but I don't think that that makes it a 'better' song. Yes, popularity, polls and sales are an indication of a song's quality but not the be all and end all. I myself do much prefer plenty of Paul!songs over Imagine (and quite a number of John and George solo songs too, tbh...) I perhaps think some of the issue is the overplaying of it over the years. Much like we wish Paul would sometimes give Let It Be or Hey Jude a rest from closing every damn big concert or event, I wish they'd stop playing Imagine over everything as if it tells us everything we need to know about conflict and peace. There's no arguing from me though that it is a fantastically iconic and brilliant song. As to my opinion of the album itself, I definitely rate it very, very highly. My favorites are actually Jealous Guy and Oh My Love. I also love How? and HDYS a lot, but the latter only musically. I find that, for me, too much of John's material isn't musically adventurous in terms of melody and tempo but I find it much more palatable on this album than others of his. I also find this album doesn't sound as dated as others of his from the seventies, thankfully. Count me in also as a huge fan of all the documentary footage from the filming of the album - fascinating, enjoyable stuff. As far as HDYS goes, I've written at length regarding my feelings on the song before so won't start up a new 'discussion' of that as I suspect some of us will never agree. However, I've always maintained it is excellent in terms of music and quite good lyrically, even if inaccurate and petty. I think one of the main reasons I hate - besides the fact that it's unfair and cruel at times, especially putting it out in public - is that people still use it's lyrics asa justification for hating Paul. Just a month or so ago on articles celebrating Paul's birthday I saw a number of comments which directly quoted this song along with John's RS interview-of-bile as justification for what an awful person and musician Paul is. Many of these people don't know Paul's history and music and simply take John's words on Paul as gospel and HDYS and the RS interview are perhaps the most well known and oft-quoted John quotes on Paul, I've found anyway. And I think THAT is unfortunate no matter how clever the wordplay is and how great and biting George's guitar solo is... I think it's John's best, most consistent album (for my tastes anyway). It's more musically variable than others of his and it's very strong thematically, emotionally, and lyrically even if I disagree with some of his sentiments.
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Post by coachbk on Jul 21, 2012 23:08:46 GMT -5
I usually list IMAGINE as my favorite John solo album (with the caveat that I would take a combination of John's DOUBLE FANTASY and MILK AND HONEY tracks over it). My problem with IMAGINE is that it has two songs I really dislike. That's 20% of the album. Still the other 80% is outstanding (6 songs I would call "great") so I have to rate the album highly. Song By Song: "Imagine"-the best known and possibly best of all Beatles solo songs. I would not agree with JSD's claims of putting it ahead of all Paul's songs combined. Certainly "Let It Be", "Hey Jude" and "Yesterday" combined have a greater resonance with more people. If we are talking just solo, I think "Maybe I'm Amazed", "Band On The Run" and "My Love" would strike a nearly comparable footing. But "Imagine" is great, no question. "Crippled Inside"-I like this one a lot. It really moves along well with a unique sound and the lyrics are clever. "Jealous Guy"-an excellent song, could have been a hit as a second single from this LP. John's jealous streak is well documented so this is true confessional writing within a nice melody. "It's So Hard"-the only song on the album I put in the "average" category. But good average-it has some nice moments. Could perhaps have rocked a little more uptempo. "I Don't Want To Be A Soldier-a slow dirge: long and repetitive. I agree with Panther's observation that it is better placed at the end of side 1 of an album rather than in the middle of a CD. "Gimme Some Truth"-LOVE IT! It has a great riff and outstanding wordplay. John is pissed off, but accompanies it with great music! "Oh My Love"-a lovely song. One of John's best love songs from the solo era. My 23 year old musician son heard this recently for the first time and commented on how he thought it was on a par with John's best work. "How Do You Sleep"-some of you know what is coming...quite simply the low point of all Beatles related songs for me personally. Even if it wasn't about Paul, I still wouldn't consider it more than average. The slide guitar solo is the only outstanding feature. Otherwise musically it is slow and not very melodic. Lyrically it is a mess. Missing the usual Lennon wit and cleverness. It is instead juvenile and not the least bit clever. I hate this song! The last time listened to it was John's 70th birthday. It depressed me greatly (fortunately quick listens to the next two songs plus Instant Karma, Grow Old With Me and Beautiful Boy revived my spirits). I have resolved never to listen to "How Do You Sleep" for the rest of my life! "How"-a decent song. Not quite at the great level (a "3" on the Karlosi scale for sure). Thoughtful lyrically. "Oh Yoko"-This one is great! The positive feelings simply shine through the upbeat music. Love the use of the harmonica. It is about Yoko, but it still has a universal appeal to anyone who has felt a similar connection to another person. In summary, the album is perhaps a great summary of John's solo career. The high points are on a par with his Beatles work while the low points are embarrassing and uncomfortable. I would give it 4 out of 5 stars using the ROLLING STONE record guide method.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 21, 2012 23:33:17 GMT -5
. . . I feel that John's song "Imagine" is a more important and loved song today by the different generations than all of Paul's songs put together . . . Anyone? Anyone? ;D I'll jump in and say that "Yesterday" is a golden moldie, a song that is as stale as yesterday's toast. Young people yawn at "Yesterday." "Oh isn't that grandmother's favorite song?" "Imagine" keeps John in the ballgame with any artist of any era.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 21, 2012 23:47:47 GMT -5
"I have resolved never to listen to "How Do You Sleep" for the rest of my life!" CoachBK
But then Coach you would be missing a great Lennon solo song! As author of The JSD Postulate, I clearly think that John is full of shit about Paul's early solo career(except "Another Day" which is twee) but HDYS is still brilliant. It is where John was at that moment being instigated by Paul from all of Macca's digs from Ram and Paulie's other interviews, including the fraudulent one for McCartney.
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Post by Panther on Jul 22, 2012 0:23:47 GMT -5
For the record, I really like 'How Do You Sleep?' and find it a very nice track, musically. I think the melody is quite strong, and the lyrics clever. (John later re-wrote it as in the inferior 'Steel & Glass' re: Allen Klein). Of course, the attitude towards Paul expressed in the song didn't last or hold up to any close scrutiny, but neither did those of 'Attica State', 'John Sinclair', or some of John's India/LSD-inspired Beatle songs. As always with Lennon, the song is just a snapshot of him, at that moment. The moment was probably gone a few months later when he moved to New York.
btw, that's another important aspect of Imagine that needs to be noted -- it's the end of his life in Britain! John's period as king of Liverpool / Merseybeat / Folk-rock / psych-rock / hippie-dom was encapsulated in the ten years from 1962 through 1971. He was never as good or relevant or committed, in music, after he left Britain.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 22, 2012 1:05:40 GMT -5
btw, that's another important aspect of Imagine that needs to be noted -- it's the end of his life in Britain! John's period as king of Liverpool / Merseybeat / Folk-rock / psych-rock / hippie-dom was encapsulated in the ten years from 1962 through 1971. He was never as good or relevant or committed, in music, after he left Britain. That is a critical point. John never should have left the U.K. and I don't say that simply because of 12/08/80 but for what we know happened from 1971 to 1980. The U.S. Government illegally dogged John and clearly New York or Los Angeles were not as inspirational to John as London always was.
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Post by vectisfabber on Jul 22, 2012 4:32:20 GMT -5
What happened on 12 August 1980?
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Post by nicole21290 on Jul 22, 2012 4:50:41 GMT -5
I'll jump in and say that "Yesterday" is a golden moldie, a song that is as stale as yesterday's toast. Young people yawn at "Yesterday." "Oh isn't that grandmother's favorite song?" "Imagine" keeps John in the ballgame with any artist of any era. I thought the comparison was merely that of solo material but of Beatles songs come into play then, yeah, I would think there are a number of Beatles songs primarily written by Paul which are more loved and valued. The issue with all these songs are that they become overplayed and perhaps even a cliche to many. This shouldn't underestimate their actual worth as great songs, however. As far as calling Yesterday a yawn-worthy song by a young person's POV, I would disagree. I think you'd find just as many young people who wold say Imagine is plodding, cliche and naive...and as one of the young people on this board, a good song is a good song. There's only 7 yrs between the two songs anyway so in terms of being judged on their age, I doubt that's where the young person would quibble. I find Yesterday to be more moving, personally, and more innovative in terms of musical progress. Yes, they're both great songs but Yesterday definitely is better lyrically and musically to my ears. It might seem stale as it has been played so very much but we can also say the same for Imagine and I would do so. I think the original recording of Yesterday has actually aged better than Imagine and I certainly don't yawn at it. And 22 is young enough so not ALL young folks 'yawn' at it. To be honest, I think I hear Imagine more than Yesterday these days in terms of radio play and media usage...
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Post by nicole21290 on Jul 22, 2012 5:02:25 GMT -5
"I have resolved never to listen to "How Do You Sleep" for the rest of my life!" CoachBKBut then Coach you would be missing a great Lennon solo song! As author of The JSD Postulate, I clearly think that John is full of shit about Paul's early solo career(except "Another Day" which is twee) but HDYS is still brilliant. It is where John was at that moment being instigated by Paul from all of Macca's digs from Ram and Paulie's other interviews, including the fraudulent one for McCartney. Sorry to butt in but FRAUDULENT?! How is that McCartney interview in any way deceptive or deceitful? Yes, perhaps it wasn't the most gracious or clever way of coping with his situation but in no way was that interview fraudulent and I think people overstate its importance. I think the boys were more angry and upset at the whole being sued thing than Paul having the nerve to use the fact that The Beatles had been over for some time as an implied statement when releasing an album. Also, ALL of his digs on RAM? John has talked in an interview about reading into songs things that aren't really there and I honestly think he did this with RAM. Yes, the beetles screwing and Too Many People are obviously digs at John but, to be honest, I don't think those digs (one of which - the song - is certainly not explicit about the subject being his friend) are worthy of the vitriolic response they got from John. Yes, it is where John was at that time but st one point he was also totally infatuated with how Klein handled things and that turned out to be a mistake. I think HDYS was too, even if John later tried to distance the song's meaning from Paul. People STILL frequently use the lyrics and the RS interview as ammunition in attacking and insulting Paul and I personally think that is extremely nfortunate, considering how many more quotes ar respectful and loving towards his friend. Media and online arguments generally thrive on conflict so that's part of it but I still have great distaste for the song for that reason in particular. John attacks his worthy both personally and musically and that cannot have been pleasant when Paul's also admitted to going through John's insulting interviews line by line and coming to the conclusion in that oment that, yeah, John says he's a sh*t so that's what he must be. I just hate the hate (=conflicted love and bitterness and anger)
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Post by nicole21290 on Jul 22, 2012 5:14:32 GMT -5
For the record, I really like 'How Do You Sleep?' and find it a very nice track, musically. I think the melody is quite strong, and the lyrics clever. (John later re-wrote it as in the inferior 'Steel & Glass' re: Allen Klein). Of course, the attitude towards Paul expressed in the song didn't last or hold up to any close scrutiny, but neither did those of 'Attica State', 'John Sinclair', or some of John's India/LSD-inspired Beatle songs. As always with Lennon, the song is just a snapshot of him, at that moment. The moment was probably gone a few months later when he moved to New York. btw, that's another important aspect of Imagine that needs to be noted -- it's the end of his life in Britain! John's period as king of Liverpool / Merseybeat / Folk-rock / psych-rock / hippie-dom was encapsulated in the ten years from 1962 through 1971. He was never as good or relevant or committed, in music, after he left Britain. One issue is that people haven't generally gone back and looked at HDYS with any scrunity except for music journalists and big fans. A number of the insulting posts towards Paul on his birthday (and no, they were not the majority) directly quoted HDYS as the be all and end all and the whole truth of Paul's character, both personally and musically. You don't see the same with people quoting Too Many People, for example. This song and the RS interview made a far greater impact on how people have seen and see Paul than anything Paul has said about John. The digs we see made at John on RAM are never used as ammo against John, nor are the other main things where Paul criticizes John, whether justified or not ie. Martin Luther Lennon and the McCartney self-interview etc. Instead, we view those as disengenuous and nasty or petty and criticize Paul for them. We certainly don't see the general public in an online forum using Paul's criticisms of John such as they are to attack John. Likewise, people online and in real life are prone to (and this was hugely evident on Paul's birthday) summing him up by the worst of his work, such as they see it ie. Frog Chorus, Ebony and Ivory etc and this apparently cancels out his best work. I've very, very rarely seen the same occur in relation to John - no one goes around quoting John's worst songs as evidence of how he was a bad songwriter and musician in totality. I wonder if it is merely because Paul's worst songs, such as they're generally seen, are also big sellers and well known whereas John's worst songs are more usually deep-cuts. Nevertheless, HDYS may have been John's attitude at one moment before he moved on but it is still regularly used by the less discerning listener and commentator as a justified attack and a truthful one on Paul. And I think that sucks.
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Post by nicole21290 on Jul 22, 2012 5:16:27 GMT -5
What happened on 12 August 1980? This is where I likewise curse the American system of dates. 08/12/1980 was a terrible date, yes...
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Post by Panther on Jul 22, 2012 5:41:37 GMT -5
This is where I likewise curse the American system of dates. Here in Japan it's 1980.12.08
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Post by Panther on Jul 22, 2012 5:46:38 GMT -5
Nevertheless, HDYS may have been John's attitude at one moment before he moved on but it is still regularly used by the less discerning listener and commentator as a justified attack and a truthful one on Paul. And I think that sucks. Your points about the selective memories of certain fans may be a good one, but PLEASE let's not turn my Imagine thread into yet another boring John vs. Paul thread. Let's just focus on Imagine, please. Thanks.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 22, 2012 5:49:46 GMT -5
One issue is that people haven't generally gone back and looked at HDYS with any scrunity except for music journalists and big fans. A number of the insulting posts towards Paul on his birthday (and no, they were not the majority) directly quoted HDYS as the be all and end all and the whole truth of Paul's character, both personally and musically. You don't see the same with people quoting Too Many People, for example. This song and the RS interview made a far greater impact on how people have seen and see Paul than anything Paul has said about John. The digs we see made at John on RAM are never used as ammo against John, nor are the other main things where Paul criticizes John, whether justified or not ie. That's because sneaky Paul was subtle and veiled in his lyrical attacks of John. I have always loved HOW DO YOU SLEEP and particularly Lennon's attitude of "oh yeah, so you wanna play games, huh? I'll show you how to play games and not pussy-foot around... if you take little jabs at the back of my neck I'll lay you out flat on your back!".The Bottom Line is, Lennon generally wrote stronger lyrics than Paul did, and Paul generally wrote stronger melodies than John did. (And for the life of me I can't understand why fans won't get that and keep fighting it). But also it is certainly true that Paul could write excellent lyrics and John could write excellent music; it's just that one tends to gain a reputation based on what stands out most. So don't let the song bug you so much when you realize and accept that it was just John's feelings "at that moment". As for some listeners feeling it is truthful and accurate against Paul, that is entirely up to them.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 22, 2012 5:53:36 GMT -5
Yes, the beetles screwing and Too Many People are obviously digs at John but, to be honest, I don't think those digs (one of which - the song - is certainly not explicit about the subject being his friend) are worthy of the vitriolic response they got from John. Good for you. Then you shouldn't write a song like HDYS if you were in the same situtation. But John was John, not Nicole ... John is going to be John and handle it as HE sees fit. And Paul messed with the wrong guy and should have known that John Lennon was not one to be played like that. Paul brought it on himself.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 22, 2012 5:57:39 GMT -5
I'll jump in and say that "Yesterday" is a golden moldie, a song that is as stale as yesterday's toast. Young people yawn at "Yesterday." "Oh isn't that grandmother's favorite song?" "Imagine" keeps John in the ballgame with any artist of any era. I agree completely (though I am personally thinking IMAGINE is becoming as overplayed as YESTERDAY). But this is a great example... and IMAGINE does indeed keep John in the ballgame with a timeless anthem like this. For all Paul's wonderful songs out there, does he have even one which speaks out for all-time as IMAGINE does...?
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 22, 2012 6:00:51 GMT -5
"How Do You Sleep"-Lyrically it is a mess. Missing the usual Lennon wit and cleverness. It is instead juvenile and not the least bit clever. I hate this song! Well, you hate it because it's "unfriendly Beatles". But I strongly disagree with your opinion that the words are not clever. The "Yesterday/Another Day" line is brilliant and very clever - even if it was Klein who came up with "Another Day".
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 22, 2012 6:08:10 GMT -5
By chance, I ended up (re-)watching the Imagine John & Yoko doc on YouTube recently -- I mean the one filmed during the making of the album, in summer 1971. I hadn't seen many of the clips since I was in Junior High school or something. What do y'all make of the Imagine album itself? I first heard it, in full, on CD when I was 18 years old (this was in summer '94). Loved it then and now. Here in Tokyo, I've just bought it on vinyl... it hangs on my wall, in fact. I really like this album, well-worn as it is. I think it maintains the late 60s/early 70s classic rock vibe (i.e., long-haired hippies with idealism, commitment to the blues, straight production without frills), and is the last capture of the highest level of John's erratic genius before he got distracted by the USA, green cards, Yoko problems, and boredom. John himself noted that several of the songs had been kicking around since 1970, and Beatle-fans know that 'Jealous Guy' is a re-write of 'Child of Nature' from early 1968, and that 'Gimme Some Truth' was also a Beatle-era track. I'm guessing that 'It's So Hard' and 'Oh My Love' -- and maybe 'How' -- had been around since during or before the Plastic Ono Band songs were written. Song-by-song: Imagine -- all-time classic, and I've sort-of rediscovered it in the past year or so for pure enjoyment. I really dig the lyrics, man, and what a brilliant melody. Crippled Inside -- wonderful, jaunty song, that probably gets overlooked a bit because it's performed so tongue-in-cheek and seems slight compared to the more famous songs that frame it. I love this track to bits. Jealous Guy -- minor classic, and a stand-out on its own. Perfectly captured, with the whistling being oh so nice. It's So Hard -- I love this song, but in retrospect the horns (recorded in New York after the sessions were wrapped) are a harbinger of the hammy Elephant's Memory sound to come soon... still a great, jaunty R&B track, though. I Don't Want to be a Soldier -- good, tough blues, improved greatly by George Harrison's guitar, but a bit overlong. (Appropriately placed at the end of one vinyl side -- a benefit lost in the CD era.) Gimme Some Truth -- great song, and a nice enough recording, but I always felt it could have 'swung' a bit more. The track seems kind of leaden. Oh My Love -- Lovely, wonderful recording. Similar vibe to 'Look at Me' on the previous record. Definitely a feeling of having come off drugs about it... How Do You Sleep? -- very good song musically, but obviously a lyrical minefield. I enjoy it. With John, you take the pettiness along with the Agape love. How? -- I really like this track. Sums up the insecurities of John and a generation. The final note -- George Martin-like -- is cheesy, but perfect. Oh Yoko! -- Great track, with a unique feel. Dreamlike, but also fast and bouncy. Love the busker harmonica at the end -- perfect capper to the LP. (Anyone notice that the final 3 tracks all feature punctuation?) Overall assessment: Near-perfect solo Beatle-LP, especially in terms of commercial appeal to both the aficionado and the mainstream drone. John's most commercially successful album, and -- I would say -- his 2nd best, after Plastic Ono Band (amazingly, released just 9 months earlier). John himself later said the strings (the 'sugarcoating') might have been overdone on this album. I don't agree -- I think they're used perfectly and in good taste. My only reservations about Imagine would be (a) that the 10 songs are perhaps a bit too mid-tempo -- the album could use a bit more fast-paced energy at times; and (b) Lennon's vocals, while still great overall, are nowhere near his best. In particular, the quality of the vocals pales in comparison to the previous album, probably due to this record being rush-recorded, at home. Thoughts? Very nice review. IMAGINE is one of John's best albums -- his most accessible when one is not in the mood for the dreariness of PLASTIC ONO BAND. I really don't want to go song-by-song in analyzing the album, all I need to say is I like each and every song on it and it's great.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 22, 2012 6:12:42 GMT -5
Nevertheless, HDYS may have been John's attitude at one moment before he moved on but it is still regularly used by the less discerning listener and commentator as a justified attack and a truthful one on Paul. And I think that sucks. Your points about the selective memories of certain fans may be a good one, but PLEASE let's not turn my Imagine thread into yet another boring John vs. Paul thread. Let's just focus on Imagine, please. Thanks. I already responded to Nicole before you wrote this, panther... and honestly, I was saying to myself "here I am, getting sucked back in to another JvP thingie". But you're right .... though at the same time it's probably difficult to approach HOW DO YOU SLEEP without the inevitable...
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 22, 2012 8:08:26 GMT -5
I agree pretty much with panther's review as well. I first heard Imagine in 1971. I am not as receptive to How Do You Sleep and I Don't Want to be a Soldier as panther. I think musically, they drop the ball.
I like How Do You Sleep because of the words. It's is interesting to listen to. I did not catch that RAM made any comment at all about the other Beatles. How Do You Sleep was an obvious dig at Paul. I, and I think like most kids my age in the 70s, did not read Rolling Stone and did not know much at all about the split. How Do You Sleep laid it all out there. I think it started the JvP thing. Then, it was like Paul is Dead, looking for clues everywhere (We Can Work it Out? They were fighting back then?). Musically, the song is dreadful.
As is I Don't Want to be a Soldier. Oddly enough, the outtake on Lennon's Anthology is much better. It has a bounce to it that really sells the song.
If I were to rank all of John's albums:
Walls and Bridges Double Fantasy Milk and Honey Imagine Plastic Ono Mind Games Some Time in NYC Rock and Roll
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Post by nicole21290 on Jul 22, 2012 10:32:02 GMT -5
I definitely have to deduct a point for Soldier - just irks me for some reason, that song. Not a fan. I definitely prefer the outtake of that one. For that matter, I've always liked the Anthology version of I Know better as well, though that's not off of this album. Also, apologies for the bringing up of John/Paul stuff again. I see things like, I feel, an unnecessary comment as to the iconic status of Imagine as opposed to Paul's less 'great' songs and I just see red, in a manner of speaking. Ditto for some comments regarding HDYS which minimize the effect I believe it has had. Anyway, Imagine is great. As is John. The end.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 22, 2012 13:46:17 GMT -5
My point on "Imagine" is that it is a song that keeps growing in stature while many of our other beloved Beatles and solo songs are increasingly being relegated to "Oldies" radio stations or deemed museum pieces by contemporary artists.
Not "Imagine" and each new generation of artists fight to perform it at important events and each new generation of music fans embrace it as the anthem it is.
That ensures that the album will likewise remain vital. It and POB don't sound dated in the least. Then again, neither do Paul's first four but that is a different Thread and a different Postulate.
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 22, 2012 15:43:53 GMT -5
"How Do You Sleep"-Lyrically it is a mess. Missing the usual Lennon wit and cleverness. It is instead juvenile and not the least bit clever. I hate this song! Well, you hate it because it's "unfriendly Beatles". But I strongly disagree with your opinion that the words are not clever. The "Yesterday/Another Day" line is brilliant and very clever - even if it was Klein who came up with "Another Day". Course John's original line was much better than Klein's: "The only think you done was Yesterday But you probably nicked the bitch anyway" Ditched for legal not aethestic reasons.
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Post by coachbk on Jul 22, 2012 21:11:55 GMT -5
"I have resolved never to listen to "How Do You Sleep" for the rest of my life!" CoachBKBut then Coach you would be missing a great Lennon solo song! As author of The JSD Postulate, I clearly think that John is full of shit about Paul's early solo career(except "Another Day" which is twee) but HDYS is still brilliant. It is where John was at that moment being instigated by Paul from all of Macca's digs from Ram and Paulie's other interviews, including the fraudulent one for McCartney. Sorry, but after many years of not listening to it, I gave it another try on John's 70th birthday. The overwhelming sadness/anger/disappointment I felt upon listening to it for the first time in many years is not something I wish to experience again. Maybe there are those out there who would say since it gives me such strong feelings then it must be a great song. I would disagree. Maybe it is a "powerful" work of "art", but it terms of pure musical/lyrical/song qualities I just hate it and have no desirre to put myself through the misery of listening to it again. And BTW I don't consider the "Yesterday/Another Day" rhyme clever at all. And it certainly wasn't true! I don't like it when people are petty, childish and vindictive and "How Do You Sleep" is all of those things to me. Nobody else has to feel that way, but that's the way I feel. Concluding on a positive note I have yet to see or hear of anyone who considers IMAGINE a weak album. Everyone seems to generally like it.
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Post by nicole21290 on Jul 22, 2012 21:17:14 GMT -5
My point on "Imagine" is that it is a song that keeps growing in stature while many of our other beloved Beatles and solo songs are increasingly being relegated to "Oldies" radio stations or deemed museum pieces by contemporary artists. Not "Imagine" and each new generation of artists fight to perform it at important events and each new generation of music fans embrace it as the anthem it is. That ensures that the album will likewise remain vital. It and POB don't sound dated in the least. Then again, neither do Paul's first four but that is a different Thread and a different Postulate. To be perfectly honest with you, Imagine IS an oldie, certainly in the eyes of the majority of young folks I know. It has been and will continue to be a great, iconic song but I don't think critically it has grown in stature. Yes, it is pulled out for big events and background music on moving accounts and reports on peace but I don't think you will find many people taking modern musical cues from it, for example. John as a person, because of his life and death, is a huge icon, both musically and politically for many, and Imagine is seen as the centerpiece of that image. Imagine is mostly played - on a random day - on Oldies radio and whilst contemporary artists and 'normal folks' may see the song as incredibly relevant to this day, this may not always be the case. I also think it overstates its importance to say that each new generation of artists fights to perform it. Yes, it is highly valued and it's message is relevant at many of these big events but you will hard pressed to find many artists who take for their creed and musical tone that of Imagine. It is a statement of a song and although better fleshed out than another of John's universal anthems (Give Peace A Chance) it is still generally seen in that context. To the young people I know who know the songs, anyway... Yes, the whole album will probably remain vital, just as POB is, the latter primarily for content rather than musical innovation. Imagine, however, I see as a summing up of what I love and dislike about John, both as person and musician and I think it is more indicative of him than POB is, even if it is less influential and groundbreaking. I do think some songs on Imagine do sound dated, to be honest - it larks a little bit the starkness and clarity of sound and message that I think POB has in spades. Overall, those two albums have aged much better than John's other seventies efforts, I would say, but even if they have been elevated rightly to anthem and legend status, I don't think young people of my generation have quite the reverence and adoration for it that you seem to think they have.
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Post by nicole21290 on Jul 22, 2012 21:20:08 GMT -5
Well, you hate it because it's "unfriendly Beatles". But I strongly disagree with your opinion that the words are not clever. The "Yesterday/Another Day" line is brilliant and very clever - even if it was Klein who came up with "Another Day". Course John's original line was much better than Klein's: "The only think you done was Yesterday But you probably nicked the bitch anyway" Ditched for legal not aethestic reasons. And I am so damn glad it wasn't included. Yep, John, feel free to assert that Paul has only ever done one good thing musically (consider that Paul up to this point gained self-worth primarily from his musical ability and John's affirmation of him) and that that doesn't really count either because he's a plagiarist... Sorry, this song and time period frustrates me to no end.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 22, 2012 21:20:40 GMT -5
Sorry, but after many years of not listening to it, I gave it another try on John's 70th birthday. The overwhelming sadness/anger/disappointment I felt upon listening to it for the first time in many years is not something I wish to experience again. Maybe there are those out there who would say since it gives me such strong feelings then it must be a great song. I would disagree. Maybe it is a "powerful" work of "art", but it terms of pure musical/lyrical/song qualities I just hate it and have no desirre to put myself through the misery of listening to it again. And BTW I don't consider the "Yesterday/Another Day" rhyme clever at all. And it certainly wasn't true! I don't like it when people are petty, childish and vindictive and "How Do You Sleep" is all of those things to me. Nobody else has to feel that way, but that's the way I feel. Concluding on a positive note I have yet to see or hear of anyone who considers IMAGINE a weak album. Everyone seems to generally like it. Fair enough Coach. As I say, I disagree with some, not all, of John's charges in the song. I had read about it before I heard it and as a teen I was kind of scared of the song going into it. I actually preferred "Gimme Some Truth" as I thought it rocked and I loved George's guitar solo better there than HDYS.
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