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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 7, 2013 16:44:53 GMT -5
I've always felt that the reason LET IT BE has never come to DVD is because either one or more of The Beatles (or the widows) does not want people to get a negative vibe and see The Beatles depressed and annoying each other. I've always felt too that Apple probably wants to promote this cheesy "LOVE" vision of The beatles.
While reading Wikipedia I found this quote. I realize that Wiki cannot always be considered 100% reliable, but here it is:
>>An anonymous industry source told the Daily Express in July 2008 that, according to Apple insiders, McCartney and Starr blocked the release of the film on DVD. The two were concerned about the effect on the band's "global brand ... if the public sees the darker side of the story. Neither Paul nor Ringo would feel comfortable publicising a film showing The Beatles getting on each other's nerves ... There's all sorts of extra footage showing more squabbles but it's unlikely it will ever see the light of day in Paul and Ringo's lifetime."<<
Whether that is accurate or not, I can see it being the case. I'd hate to think that Paul and/or Ringo is behind suppressing LIB, because it would mean they want to whitewash The Fabs, and not to show any 'warts". If this is true (and I'm not saying it is for sure), it is unfortunate. But I do definitely feel someone somewhere does not want the World seeing The Beatles in the dirty, miserable, argumentative, unhappy, bored way in which LIB depicts them. They're trying to preserve the mythical and always-cheery "HARD DAY'S NIGHT" and "LOVE" fantasy.
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Post by mikev on Sept 7, 2013 20:42:23 GMT -5
I've always felt that the reason LET IT BE has never come to DVD is because either one or more of The Beatles (or the widows) does not want people to get a negative vibe and see The Beatles depressed and annoying each other. I've always felt too that Apple probably wants to promote this cheesy "LOVE" vision of The beatles. While reading Wikipedia I found this quote. I realize that Wiki cannot always be considered 100% reliable, but here it is: >>An anonymous industry source told the Daily Express in July 2008 that, according to Apple insiders, McCartney and Starr blocked the release of the film on DVD. The two were concerned about the effect on the band's "global brand ... if the public sees the darker side of the story. Neither Paul nor Ringo would feel comfortable publicising a film showing The Beatles getting on each other's nerves ... There's all sorts of extra footage showing more squabbles but it's unlikely it will ever see the light of day in Paul and Ringo's lifetime."<<Whether that is accurate or not, I can see it being the case. I'd hate to think that Paul and/or Ringo is behind suppressing LIB, because it would mean they want to whitewash The Fabs, and not to show any 'warts". If this is true (and I'm not saying it is for sure), it is unfortunate. But I do definitely feel someone somewhere does not want the World seeing The Beatles in the dirty, miserable, argumentative, unhappy, bored way in which LIB depicts them. They're trying to preserve the mythical and always-cheery "HARD DAY'S NIGHT" and "LOVE" fantasy. Then the compromise is simple: release the performances only- scrap the movie. IMO, this would in fact preserve the mythical and always cheery. With the exception of John's simplified bass on Long & Winding Road, all of the main performances cut the mustard. A few alternative takes and several rehearsals are still fun. It is a complete sin, Paul can put out Edit Be, when live film of the performances existed.
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Post by debjorgo on Sept 7, 2013 21:11:40 GMT -5
This was my favorite period for Paul. Ringo's pretty cool too. Call it Get Back.
Get Yoko and Olivia/Dhani together with Paul and Ringo to pick out their favorite outtakes. There's enough of them to pick from. If they like the early era better, put clips from the early live shows to pad it out.
I'm afraid they're thinking, "That's the last official release, that's everything. What's left?"
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Post by mikev on Sept 7, 2013 21:34:56 GMT -5
This was my favorite period for Paul. Ringo's pretty cool too. Call it Get Back. Get Yoko and Olivia/Dhani together with Paul and Ringo to pick out their favorite outtakes. There's enough of them to pick from. If they like the early era better, put clips from the early live shows to pad it out. I'm afraid they're thinking, "That's the last official release, that's everything. What's left?" To be honest, the original movie is technically and schematically horrible: Paul playing bad classical piano at the beginning with a dreary Ringo sitting at his side, a squabble between George and Paul that you'know- this was before reality shows, leave it off, discussions you could barely understand, badly synced rehearsals. and a fragmented rooftop concert. ALL IN GRAINY VIDEO AND AUDIO.
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Post by debjorgo on Sept 7, 2013 21:49:07 GMT -5
This was my favorite period for Paul. Ringo's pretty cool too. Call it Get Back. Get Yoko and Olivia/Dhani together with Paul and Ringo to pick out their favorite outtakes. There's enough of them to pick from. If they like the early era better, put clips from the early live shows to pad it out. I'm afraid they're thinking, "That's the last official release, that's everything. What's left?" To be honest, the original movie is technically and schematically horrible: Paul playing bad classical piano at the beginning with a dreary Ringo sitting at his side, a squabble between George and Paul that you'know- this was before reality shows, leave it off, discussions you could barely understand, badly synced rehearsals. and a fragmented rooftop concert. ALL IN GRAINY VIDEO AND AUDIO. I Got a Feeling, Two of Us, One After 909, Get Back, Don't Let Me Down, Across the Universe, For You Blue ...etc., some great songs+. They look cool as shit+. Pissy attitude+. Some great editing and you've got their best release yet. Come on, Paul, a chance to re-write history. Attachments:
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 8, 2013 7:16:45 GMT -5
To be honest, the original movie is technically and schematically horrible: Paul playing bad classical piano at the beginning with a dreary Ringo sitting at his side, a squabble between George and Paul that you'know- this was before reality shows, leave it off, discussions you could barely understand, badly synced rehearsals. and a fragmented rooftop concert. ALL IN GRAINY VIDEO AND AUDIO. Mike, first I must congratulate you on your wonderful title: "EDIT BE"... very clever! However, as I often say as a general movie lover, I think it is unethical to reconstruct the original LIB film and change it from what it was. The fact that it IS so miserable and lackluster and boring in places, and dimly lit and kind of grim actually fits in perfectly with what the reality of the Beatles' partnership was at that time. The Beatles were breaking up, growing apart -- and that is very important, historically speaking, to preserve. Besides, a good rule of thumb to always remember for obtaining some solace and balance, is that the Beatles would later go on to record ABBEY ROAD, which was a great album and had the band working nicely together again for one last spectacular Swan Song -- so LIB was just a temporary funk, in a way. All humans have these experiences and I'd like to see them normal for a change instead of the glowing and happy go lucky moptops all of the time. But to also piece together a separate new documentary culled from the existing GET BACK footage, and include it as a more "positive" bonus feature? Sure, absolutely. The reason that the film of LIB looks so poor and grainy is because it was filmed on 16mm instead of 35mm. It was later blown up, which also compromises quality. However, these days with HD technology they can improve everything -- and we've already seen how sharp and colorful the LIB footage appeared when it was remastered for ANTHOLOGY -- and that was 20 years ago now!
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Post by debjorgo on Sept 8, 2013 8:13:15 GMT -5
"Edit Be" was a smart name but that's what Joe is against. It's not really descriptive of what we are saying. I'm saying, and mikev is saying "Throw the movie out". Give us the last concert, the roof top show. Showing scenes of them rehearsing the songs is completely legit. Showing previous concert footage is legit.
I'd rather have the movie because it should come out, but in lieu of that, give me Get Back.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 8, 2013 8:31:24 GMT -5
"Edit Be" was a smart name but that's what Joe is against. It's not really descriptive of what we are saying. I'm saying, and mikev is saying "Throw the movie out". Give us the last concert, the roof top show. Showing scenes of them rehearsing the songs is completely legit. Showing previous concert footage is legit. I'd rather have the movie because it should come out, but in lieu of that, give me Get Back. But the thing is, why does it have to be "in lieu of"...? I think it's disgraceful that either the two surviving Beatles - or Yoko - or Olivia - or George before he died - or Apple themselves - are vetoing the idea of preserving LET IT BE as it is. A lot of people think the whole Beatles thing is sugar coated and they don't have balls like The Rolling Stones. So why not give them some "rough edges" and release the bickering and grimy LIB movie? Seeing The Beatles rough like that is not a bad thing. And they may still be able to market it in such a way to make that edge appealing. The idea of just presenting the songs and the rooftop concert may be okay for a "Video Compilation", but not as a consolation prize for the actual LIB film. Actually, they could release LET IT BE on DVD and then have a separate bonus section where you can opt to "Play Songs Only". A lot of DVDs have such side options. I'm hoping that a DVD or Blu-ray release of LIB may be in the thinking for next year's "50th Anniversary Celebration".
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Post by mikev on Sept 8, 2013 10:21:34 GMT -5
"Edit Be" was a smart name but that's what Joe is against. It's not really descriptive of what we are saying. I'm saying, and mikev is saying "Throw the movie out". Give us the last concert, the roof top show. Showing scenes of them rehearsing the songs is completely legit. Showing previous concert footage is legit. I'd rather have the movie because it should come out, but in lieu of that, give me Get Back. But the thing is, why does it have to be "in lieu of"...? I think it's disgraceful that either the two surviving Beatles - or Yoko - or Olivia - or George before he died - or Apple themselves - are vetoing the idea of preserving LET IT BE as it is. A lot of people think the whole Beatles thing is sugar coated and they don't have balls like The Rolling Stones. So why not give them some "rough edges" and release the bickering and grimy LIB movie? Seeing The Beatles rough like that is not a bad thing. And they may still be able to market it in such a way to make that edge appealing. The idea of just presenting the songs and the rooftop concert may be okay for a "Video Compilation", but not as a consolation prize for the actual LIB film. Actually, they could release LET IT BE on DVD and then have a separate bonus section where you can opt to "Play Songs Only". A lot of DVDs have such side options. I'm hoping that a DVD or Blu-ray release of LIB may be in the thinking for next year's "50th Anniversary Celebration". Two problems: One, as history shows with Anthology, even though they upgrade the collection when put on DVD, they failed to give you an option to just watch videos- if they did, I (we)could watch the best of Get Back performances back to back, rather than leafing through, plus all of the other videos, and I wouldn't be making this monthy diatribe. I would hope this time around they would do it the way you describe, but probably on the $235 bonus package. Two: They haven't released it yet, anyway, and blew a BIG opportunity to do it, or the performance video I described to match the Edit Be release. We aren't getting any younger folks- Edit Be came out in 2003!
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andyb
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Post by andyb on Sept 8, 2013 10:24:51 GMT -5
Don't you mean 45th next year?
There's lots of options. There was an original directors cut that could be included but that may be no improvement.
I want something rather than nothing but I'd like 'em to do something interesting with the material they have. Assuming there's enough footage to go with interesting audio and people aren't changing clothes every 45 frame, which the original film suffers from.
The couple of discussions that were included in Anthology were great and I'd settle for more of that even.
I'm sure there was an interview with Paul or Ringo recently where they mentioned it was in the pipeline or would come out eventually.
You wonder whether they own all the rights or there's other copyright issues. Apart from the Neil Aspinall comment about it being too close to the knuckle for everyone there's little concrete ever been said.
Sad because it's all available online and they're not making any money from it. Surely there's enough funny bits in there to make it fun to view.
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Post by mikev on Sept 8, 2013 10:27:27 GMT -5
...and as discussed on the quality, we've seen the cleaned up Anthology material, so seeing that the movie has already been cleaned up and is just sitting in a can - it is even more of a shame. I own the official VHS and copied it to DVD, but I wouldn't think of showing it to todays "yoots". The cleaned up one? Maybe.
Joe you could argue that the crap quality is part of the original "charm"(my quote not yours), but because it was assembled as you described, there are dozens of products out there on DVD that contain just that. I'll give you one if you want it.
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Post by mikev on Sept 8, 2013 10:32:02 GMT -5
Don't you mean 45th next year? There's lots of options. There was an original directors cut that could be included but that may be no improvement. I want something rather than nothing but I'd like 'em to do something interesting with the material they have. Assuming there's enough footage to go with interesting audio and people aren't changing clothes every 45 frame, which the original film suffers from. The couple of discussions that were included in Anthology were great and I'd settle for more of that even. I'm sure there was an interview with Paul or Ringo recently where they mentioned it was in the pipeline or would come out eventually. You wonder whether they own all the rights or there's other copyright issues. Apart from the Neil Aspinall comment about it being too close to the knuckle for everyone there's little concrete ever been said. Sad because it's all available online and they're not making any money from it. Surely there's enough funny bits in there to make it fun to view. Speaking of Anthology, one other thing still in the can is the electric jams with Jeff Lynne containing ELOtle performances of Besame Mucho, Love Me Do, I Saw Her Standing There and Sgt. Pepper. Maybe when Jeff showed up with his afro straightened and swept, and beard cut down to lamb chops (Lennnon early 1968 look), the other three got a little leery.
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andyb
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Post by andyb on Sept 8, 2013 10:39:45 GMT -5
Speaking of Anthology, one other thing still in the can is the electric jams with Jeff Lynne containing ELOtle performances of Besame Mucho, Love Me Do, I Saw Her Standing There and Sgt. Pepper. Maybe when Jeff showed up with his afro straightened and swept, and beard cut down to lamb chops (Lennnon early 1968 look), the other three got a little leery. That as well.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 8, 2013 11:23:57 GMT -5
Joe you could argue that the crap quality is part of the original "charm"(my quote not yours), but because it was assembled as you described, there are dozens of products out there on DVD that contain just that. I'll give you one if you want it. Thanks, but I already own the original Magnetic Video VHS which I purchased in 1981... and have burned it to a DVD-R.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 8, 2013 11:26:04 GMT -5
Don't you mean 45th next year? No, Andy - what I was referring to is the upcoming "50th Anniversary" celebrating the Beatles' 1964 takeover in America when they appeared in NY. I'm thinking it's going to be a big marketing year. I hope so, anyway.
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andyb
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Post by andyb on Sept 8, 2013 12:31:54 GMT -5
Maybe. But for that they'll probably release a Washington DVD, which would be welcome. Perhaps even a Live in America DVD.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 4:03:09 GMT -5
To be honest, the original movie is technically and schematically horrible: Paul playing bad classical piano at the beginning with a dreary Ringo sitting at his side, a squabble between George and Paul that you'know- this was before reality shows, leave it off, discussions you could barely understand, badly synced rehearsals. and a fragmented rooftop concert. ALL IN GRAINY VIDEO AND AUDIO. I Got a Feeling, Two of Us, One After 909, Get Back, Don't Let Me Down, Across the Universe, For You Blue ...etc., some great songs+. They look cool as shit+. Pissy attitude+. Some great editing and you've got their best release yet. Come on, Paul, a chance to re-write history. I think I've mentioned before Let It Be was their best release anyway. I think they should just release the lot, give us a dvd that shows it warts and all. I'd like to watch it, we all know the story anyway, who cares if we see them grumpy with each other, they ended up taking sides and fighting it out in a court of law the following year, there's nothing left to hide, maybe they are stalling a release, collating the footage and leaving it for the kids to release when they've ALL gone.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 10, 2013 16:25:46 GMT -5
I think I've mentioned before Let It Be was their best release anyway. Oh, yes, you definitely mentioned it before. How could anyone forget such a statement? Yes... and besides, we all know that they got over their LIB funk temporarily, at least, and then made the great ABBEY ROAD as their last classic album!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 5:37:21 GMT -5
I think I've mentioned before Let It Be was their best release anyway. Oh, yes, you definitely mentioned it before. How could anyone forget such a statement? Yes... and besides, we all know that they got over their LIB funk temporarily, at least, and then made the great ABBEY ROAD as their last classic album! Which of course wasn't their final release, or their final BEATLES recording before they broke up, did we debate that before...
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 12, 2013 6:13:41 GMT -5
Which of course wasn't their final release, or their final BEATLES recording before they broke up, did we debate that before... Just two or three of The Beatles going into the studio in 1970 to salvage I ME MINE means absolutely nothing. It also does not matter that ABBEY ROAD and LET IT BE were released backwards. The fact is, they were in disarray as a band and were not working well together for LIB, but then came back in style as a functioning and cooperative unit for ABBEY ROAD, their last work together as a foursome.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 3:19:27 GMT -5
Which of course wasn't their final release, or their final BEATLES recording before they broke up, did we debate that before... Just two or three of The Beatles going into the studio in 1970 to salvage I ME MINE means absolutely nothing. It also does not matter that ABBEY ROAD and LET IT BE were released backwards. The fact is, they were in disarray as a band and were not working well together for LIB, but then came back in style as a functioning and cooperative unit for ABBEY ROAD, their last work together as a foursome. Actually, it does matter. Let It Be was their last album, both released and worked on. BTW, what session does the very definitive Lewisohn's Complete Beatles Recording Sessions book finish on. That should tell us what they worked on last as the Beatles....
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 13, 2013 7:14:43 GMT -5
Actually, it does matter. Let It Be was their last album, both released and worked on. BTW, what session does the very definitive Lewisohn's Complete Beatles Recording Sessions book finish on. That should tell us what they worked on last as the Beatles.... Since you consider Lewisohn as being "very definitive", here is some of his writing which you ignore. It's a quote from September 26, 1969: "Considering ABBEY ROAD as it should be considered - the last Beatles album, even though it was the penultimate release - it is an astonishing piece of work, quite possibly the best album the group made. Astonishing because the animosity within the group was largely submerged during the sessions and was not allowed to interfere with what, in the end, the Beatles were all about: music".You want to consider the mediocre LET IT BE album as their last work, but it just was not their last worked-on album as a foursome, no matter how much you want to kid yourself into thinking it was. Also from Lewisohn's book: on January 3 1970, he mentions that " The last time the four Beatles were together inside EMI studios was August 20 1969." And on that day they worked on ABBEY ROAD. John was not present on the January 1970 date where only Paul, George, and Ringo put some finishing touches on "I Me Mine" (which was only ONE song from the entire LIB album). So no, the date of Jan. 3 '70 was not "the last Beatles session"... you're playing silly semantics. Case Closed.
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Post by mikev on Sept 13, 2013 8:28:09 GMT -5
Actually, it does matter. Let It Be was their last album, both released and worked on. BTW, what session does the very definitive Lewisohn's Complete Beatles Recording Sessions book finish on. That should tell us what they worked on last as the Beatles.... Since you consider Lewisohn as being "very definitive", here is some of his writing which you ignore. It's a quote from September 26, 1969: "Considering ABBEY ROAD as it should be considered - the last Beatles album, even though it was the penultimate release - it is an astonishing piece of work, quite possibly the best album the group made. Astonishing because the animosity within the group was largely submerged during the sessions and was not allowed to interfere with what, in the end, the Beatles were all about: music".You want to consider the mediocre LET IT BE album as their last work, but it just was not their last worked-on album as a foursome, no matter how much you want to kid yourself into thinking it was. Also from Lewisohn's book: on January 3 1970, he mentions that " The last time the four Beatles were together inside EMI studios was August 20 1969." And on that day they worked on ABBEY ROAD. John was not present on the January 1970 date where only Paul, George, and Ringo put some finishing touches on "I Me Mine" (which was only ONE song from the entire LIB album). So no, the date of Jan. 3 '70 was not "the last Beatles session"... you're playing silly semantics. Case Closed. I'm not trying to get in on this arguement, but I Me Mine was NOT tracked during the Jan. 69 sessions, and was recorded from scratch in 1970. The biggest pity, is that a clip of All Things Must Pass also being rehearsed was in Hogg's original cut. I wish they did THAT one instead. Even without John, that would have been cool.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 13, 2013 8:49:29 GMT -5
I'm not trying to get in on this arguement, but I Me Mine was NOT tracked during the Jan. 69 sessions, and was recorded from scratch in 1970. "I Me Mine" was only one extra song, put on the previously recorded LET IT BE album from earlier 1969. If we want to say that "I Me Mine" was the last Beatles song, that is technically right -- but John was completely absent. Lennon had privately quit The Beatles in September 1969. I can't agree, because the way it all worked out, ALL THINGS MUST PASS succeeded mightily as a George Harrison Solo LP Set, and there is no debating successful history. It's often considered The Best Of All Solo Albums, even!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 8:59:39 GMT -5
Since you consider Lewisohn as being "very definitive", here is some of his writing which you ignore. It's a quote from September 26, 1969: "Considering ABBEY ROAD as it should be considered - the last Beatles album, even though it was the penultimate release - it is an astonishing piece of work, quite possibly the best album the group made. Astonishing because the animosity within the group was largely submerged during the sessions and was not allowed to interfere with what, in the end, the Beatles were all about: music".You want to consider the mediocre LET IT BE album as their last work, but it just was not their last worked-on album as a foursome, no matter how much you want to kid yourself into thinking it was. Also from Lewisohn's book: on January 3 1970, he mentions that " The last time the four Beatles were together inside EMI studios was August 20 1969." And on that day they worked on ABBEY ROAD. John was not present on the January 1970 date where only Paul, George, and Ringo put some finishing touches on "I Me Mine" (which was only ONE song from the entire LIB album). So no, the date of Jan. 3 '70 was not "the last Beatles session"... you're playing silly semantics. Case Closed. I'm not trying to get in on this arguement, but I Me Mine was NOT tracked during the Jan. 69 sessions, and was recorded from scratch in 1970. The biggest pity, is that a clip of All Things Must Pass also being rehearsed was in Hogg's original cut. I wish they did THAT one instead. Even without John, that would have been cool. As much as some can't except that Abbey Road wasn't the last music recorded, clearly folks other than myself know that Let IT Be tracks were recorded last and that Let It Be was released last, thanks Mike.. Case even more closed than it was before
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 13, 2013 9:18:16 GMT -5
As much as some can't except that Abbey Road wasn't the last music recorded, clearly folks other than myself know that Let IT Be tracks were recorded last and that Let It Be was released last, thanks Mike.. First, did you mean "accept" (and not "except")? I think you did... I'm just trying to understand you... Second, hiding behind MikeV as your deflector shield isn't going to help you. You mentioned Mark Lewisohn as being "very definitive", so then you should not be ignoring his statement that "ABBEY ROAD should be considered the last Beatles album". What other Beatles LET IT BE songs (aside from "I Me Mine", by The Threetles, after Lennon quit) were recorded from scratch after ABBEY ROAD?
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Post by mikev on Sept 13, 2013 10:04:35 GMT -5
As much as some can't except that Abbey Road wasn't the last music recorded, clearly folks other than myself know that Let IT Be tracks were recorded last and that Let It Be was released last, thanks Mike.. First, did you mean "accept" (and not "except")? I think you did... I'm just trying to understand you... Second, hiding behind MikeV as your deflector shield isn't going to help you. You mentioned Mark Lewisohn as being "very definitive", so then you should not be ignoring his statement that "ABBEY ROAD should be considered the last Beatles album". What other Beatles LET IT BE songs (aside from "I Me Mine", by The Threetles, after Lennon quit) were recorded from scratch after ABBEY ROAD? I'm not taking sides. I consider Abbey Road the last album they recorded and I Me Mine the last song they recorded, especially since it was not on Abbey Road. The fact that Spector (and Martin on Let it Be the song) added a boatload of musical overdubs to the Let it Be LP (including little bits by Paul, George and Ringo) foggies the waters, but I stand by my statement above.
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Post by mikev on Sept 13, 2013 10:08:37 GMT -5
Now if they also stuck Instant Karma, Cold Turkey and It Don't Come Easy onto the LP (all with two Beatles)and recorded before Paul's announcement-you might have a real arguement.
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andyb
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Post by andyb on Sept 13, 2013 12:08:31 GMT -5
Let it Be isn't a mediocre album. There's some cracking songs on there.
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Post by mikev on Sept 13, 2013 12:33:30 GMT -5
Let it Be isn't a mediocre album. There's some cracking songs on there. I was refering more to putting songs on the LP recorded after January of 1969. I like both the Spector and Johns copies of the LP itself. Aruguably you could have also added Inner Light, Hey Jude, Revolution, Mary Jane, Don't Let Me Down, Ballad, Old Brown Shoe, second disc the Let it Be LP as is, and viola, the Black LP
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