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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 13, 2013 6:53:08 GMT -5
"Sisters, O Sisters" (boogie Yoko!); "Attica State" rocks along nicely but these are lyrics I find must offensive, sorry I do not feel sorry for convicted felons especially those who capture and torture guards; "New York City," a song I wish would get more airtime to remind kiddies that John was primarily a Rock and Roller; "Sunday Bloody Sunday," among John's most powerful vocals ever; "Luck of The Irish" for some of John's must lush, poignant singing ever even as he is accusing people of genocide ;and "Angela" for the prettiest ever John and Yoko duet. Good listen for me from what is a predominantly hated album. I think the passage of 41 years since its release has actually helped the album other than the N-word controversy. The day is coming when WITNOTW might be removed from future versions as there is a real movement to ban that word from use by everyone. I agree with you on all the songs except that I despise SUNDAY BLOODY SUNDAY, which for me remains one of John's worst songs ever. I too like the rocking aspect of ATTICA STATE except that I don't approve of the lyrics -- they're John at his most naive and idiotic, IMO. I hope you wouldn't support the "removing" of WOMAN IS THE NIGGER OF THE WORLD. I didn't want to expand on this controversy too much, but your words here just invite a response. For one thing, as I said in another post, black people call themselves that word regularly, and include it in their own music much of the time. I think it's kind of interesting that current PC times are putting way more stigma, taboo and horror into the dreaded 'N Word' than it ever had previously. It's become the #1 most forbidden word ever, even ahead of the "F" bomb, or whatever else. Even this fear some people have today of using the word "black", and feeling obligated to say "African American" (that's 7 syllables every time!), while it's still okay to say "white". Uh-Uh -- I'm white, you are black. Even Steven. I do not expect to be called "Italian-American". By the way, not all black people feel the need to be put on a special pedestal. I recall hearing a radio interview recently on the Don Imus show, and he had a black woman on his program. Ever since Imus was fired from his job for a misunderstanding in this area, he is now polarized into always strategically saying "African-American". This woman was on his show to talk about race relations mainly. Well, after a few times of politely referring to his guest as "African-American", finally the woman stopped him and said: "Imus, please -- no need to call me 'African American', that is a real mouthful -- I am black." Well said, ma'am -- well said. It IS a 'mouthful', and a lot to type, too. And all as not to offend anyone, while simultaneously you're still being referred to more quickly and handily as "white".
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Post by vectisfabber on Jul 13, 2013 7:50:02 GMT -5
If John's song is controversial because of the point he is making, then hooray. If it is controversial simply because he uses the word nigger, then the idiots haven't heard any other word in the song. John was someone who grew up in an era where the word had no negative associations for whites whatsoever - for him to use it in such a way shows a fine appreciation of the power of language and how it changes. I don't like the song very much, and I dislike the album strongly, but it is a fine, fine lyric - one to be especially proud of.
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 13, 2013 8:36:47 GMT -5
If I were, I would insist on being called black. That James Brown song is so cool!
Probably his most popular, iconic song, yet it is left off most of his compilation albums.
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Post by mikev on Jul 13, 2013 11:11:02 GMT -5
The info I read didn't break it down by track. It was just a bad joke anyway. Jim had some serious mother problems. Did not know he was Norman Bates until I read wikipedia, so it sailed wayyy over my head.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 13, 2013 17:18:01 GMT -5
No Joe, I do not support WITNOTW being removed from future pressings of the album but I am just saying there is a movement, a proper one I think, to forever get people of all races from using that word and I am worried some very important works of art that actually deplore that word and the hatred behind it, like John and Yoko's song, will get censored by well-meaning people.
I have said in the past that sometimes Yoko and John tried to be too clever for their own good and this still may be one such example.
The thing is, no one every fully supported this song! It did not catch on with the feminist movement it was aimed at(again in large part because of the use of the N-word) and John and Yoko only got half-hearted support from a few Black Panther friends and some black entertainers but the support was quick, muted and those folks quickly moved on leaving this song for the dustbins of pop culture history.
We all know John and Yoko's well-meaning intent but I am not going to be the cat that plays this song at a campus rally against racism or sexism!
I played Disc 2 that comes with STINYC and what can I say? Just like when I was 15, I liked "Cold Turkey" and "Well(Baby Please Don't Go), except for Yoko's damn sheep bleating in the latter. I did not like much else other than Frank Zappa is funny with the audience and "Scumbag" was semi-fun.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 13, 2013 18:30:09 GMT -5
No Joe, I do not support WITNOTW being removed from future pressings of the album but I am just saying there is a movement, a proper one I think, to forever get people of all races from using that word Well, I'm thinking people in general may need to "lighten up Frances" (as mikev just told me ) and realize that sticks and stones... (etc). There are all sorts of terrible names out there, some as bad, some less bad, some worse -- if it is to be Equality For All, then we'd have to ban a lot more words. I just don't go for that sort of thing; I feel people really need to start growing a thicker skin. Eh, the 'N Word' at the time of the song -- while still risky -- was not nearly as severely thought of as it is today, I don't feel. Besides, the word was used to sympathize, not to put down black people -- to say that women were being treated as salves, or the slave of the slave. (I know you're aware of all this, JSD, I'm just saying). And that's fine with me. I prefer this strong song to be a "niche record", and not a #1, or anything, I understand, but the fact is that a lot of people were too stupid to understand the meaning and sentiment behind the song - both then and now, yes. I don't think I have ever played anything other than WELL and COLD TURKEY in my life! I have bounced the needle around the other songs, but that's it.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 13, 2013 19:02:31 GMT -5
I don't think I have ever played anything other than WELL and COLD TURKEY in my life! I have bounced the needle around the other songs, but that's it. Growing up I had to be careful playing my records because my Dad wasn't rock and roll. He graduated high school in 1952 so that is before Bill Haley & The Comets and Elvis, etc. In those days kids didn't get into rock and roll at college age, you really had to be a kid or teen in those early days to "get it." I had to be real careful with John Lennon's POB because John dropped the f-bomb twice in "Working Class Hero" and it is as clear and plain as if spoken so even my old man could tell what was being said! If I was pissed I'd crank it just to create teenage rebellion and my Dad would get equally pissed. Another thing I had to be real careful playing was Yoko Ono music pre-Double Fantasy. If my Dad heard me playing a song like "Don't Worry Kyoko(Mummy's Only Looking For Her Hand In The Snow)" he would have thought he raised an idiot! Accordingly I had to play quietly both records of STINYC. I never could have cranked Disc 2 at home and like you Joe, I skipped the turntable arm over most of it. My old man wasn't the only one like that. My college buddies in Dodds House, Wright Quad, Indiana University would have blown me shit in the least or kicked my ass at worse(or tried) if I had played Disc 2 loud or maybe at all. Disc 1 of STINYC was not much safer. The point is, your post Joe got me thinking that today was the very first time I could crank loud Disc 2 of STINYC! The very first time! LOL, that didn't improve anything by much although "Cold Turkey" is pretty powerful IF that is John's actual live vocal! Listen to that version again and if that lead vocal is truly live and not a subsequently overdubbed vocal then John just kicked ass and took no prisoners! Soon I play the 2010 remastered Mind Games which will be the first time I've played John's original approved mix of that album since the remixed version of MG came out in 2002! I must say I worry as the original 1987 or 1988 MG CD is so muddy with John's original mix, one of the most sonically dead CDs I had ever heard, that and the original ATMP CD. I hope the remastering helps it!
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Post by sayne on Jul 13, 2013 20:13:26 GMT -5
. . . I think it's kind of interesting that current PC times are putting way more stigma, taboo and horror into the dreaded 'N Word' than it ever had previously. It's become the #1 most forbidden word ever, even ahead of the "F" bomb, or whatever else. Even this fear some people have today of using the word "black", and feeling obligated to say "African American" (that's 7 syllables every time!), while it's still okay to say "white". Uh-Uh -- I'm white, you are black. Even Steven. I do not expect to be called "Italian-American" . . . George Carlin once said that "there are no BAD words, just bad INTENTIONS." I agree with that, so I understand the theory of your sentiment. At the same time, as in the idea that I can say things about my mom, but no one else can speak bad of her, I get the idea that "nigger" might not be the best word to say for non-African-Americans. Also, I don't think "whites" really see themselves as a color. Most likely they don't even think about it, nor does anyone really notice. That is not how they identify themselves or are identified. Not really - because "whites" have not been the "other." No one goes into a bar and says "Look at all the white people!" Whites have been the standard, the normal, if you will. Anything not white is foreign, different, and must be labeled. It's like height. Most of us are of average height and no one sees us and labels us any way because of it. But, if one is well over 6'5 or well under 5', one is seen and labeled. Quite often, the labels are created from the vantage point of those who are doing the labeling. For example, do we really think an overweight kid came up with the name "Fats" for himself? How about a girl with really bad acne? Did she suddenly decide to call herself "Pizza Face"? When a white person walks down the street, there is nothing attached to it. No one makes any assumptions about that person other than they are a regular person. When they are "profiled", it is usually due to secondary and tertiary things like hair style or clothing or physique or car or accent, etc. But, non-whites are judged primarily (albeit subconsciously, for many) on the color. The point I'm trying to make is that I agree that a lot of "political correctness" seems to go overboard (I'd love to be able to take back "gay"). But, at the same time, not much in the world is always all or nothing. Just like there is usually some truth in a myth or some truth in a lie, there is some validity to be measured in the use of some words. And, isn't it interesting that those who complain the most about "political correctness" are the ones who historically were the ones who created and enjoyed using the "incorrect" term and don't like having to be the ones to have to change. Now, this isn't a uniquely American thing. I'm sure around the world there are outsiders who struggle for the same desire to not be seen as being the different one, labeled for it, and "put in place" for it. (Okay, JoeK, sock it to me. ) Oh, by the way, just so I don't get accused of hijacking this thread, I like Woman is the Nigger of the World - as a song and as a sentiment. I get it and agree with it.
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 13, 2013 20:25:51 GMT -5
I think Angela is a masterpiece. Yoko's songs are pretty strong and more rockin' than John's.
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 13, 2013 20:38:17 GMT -5
Politically correct used to be a term strictly for politicians. They were things you could or couldn't say if you were running for or held an office. If you said them, you would alienate a group, and lose votes. Somehow, the public at large started believing it applied to them as well. I'm fine with that since I pretty much think correctly anyway.
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 13, 2013 21:47:14 GMT -5
Joe will probably accuse me of being "anti Lennon" but i always found WATNOTW to be odious. Personally i like strong women. But all that righteous 70s feminism BS. Sheesh. Reminds me of a Saturday Night Live routine where a feminist author was plugging a book "Women Good Men Bad."
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 13, 2013 21:49:35 GMT -5
"We make them paint their face and dance." Ughh. That whole album has got to be the nadir of Lennon as a lyricist.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 14, 2013 6:34:47 GMT -5
"We make them paint their face and dance." Ughh. That whole album has got to be the nadir of Lennon as a lyricist. I don't think that's so bad, but still it's only one line. How about the clever line, "While telling her not to be so smart, we put her down for being so dumb"...? Also, the line "Woman is the slave to the slave" is very strong.
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 14, 2013 7:12:28 GMT -5
"We make them paint their face and dance." Ughh. That whole album has got to be the nadir of Lennon as a lyricist. Oh, I forgot about that line. It's the only line I like in the whole song. It's like for a second he forgets the feminism point and wants to see the girl dance for him. "Dance, dance, dance, dance...". I love it!
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 14, 2013 7:20:07 GMT -5
George Carlin once said that "there are no BAD words, just bad INTENTIONS." I agree with that, so I understand the theory of your sentiment. At the same time, as in the idea that I can say things about my mom, but no one else can speak bad of her, I get the idea that "nigger" might not be the best word to say for non-African-Americans. Wow, sayne - your last distinction is actually up to EIGHT syllables ... and you also had to add two hyphens! Whew, that's a lot of work. Why not just say "non-blacks"?You know, black people use 'black' too, so it's okay... in fact, I just heard Jesse Jackson using that word constantly this morning. As I write these word I have CNN on in the background, and various black people are responding to the George Zimmerman Verdict and they're routinely using the word "black". I have had this discussion with you in the past and you've balled me out for using that term -- I tell you then and I tell you now, it is not considered offensive by the majority of the Black Community. But I do somewhat understand what you and George Carlin are getting at there (even though I would not refer to Carlin as any kind of genius to ascribe to). However, is it not true that people set the standard for how others perceive them? In other words, if I run around talking badly of my mom and loosely saying unflattering things about her, don't others automatically sense that they figure it's okay to do the same? An example is, my mom was never a great cook, so there is a joke I often say to people: "I'm so hungry I could eat my mother's cooking!" (heh heh!) ... but if someone else ever said "I'm so hungry I could eat Joe's mom's cooking", I might raise an eyebrow and not take it as well. But I have already set a standard. But in the case of that 'N' word (and I really hate having to strategically label it as such, if we're only using it as part of a discussion and are not calling anyone the name), would you not agree that it doesn't do black people any favors of self-respect by referring themselves that way, even in jest or in play? You don't think a lone black person might walk into an all-white bar and think "look at all the white people"? I would also ask you - why, on certain forms, are there special designations such as "African-American" or "Hispanic", yet for Caucasians there is just plain old "White"...? I think a lot of people along with yourself are still harboring old fashioned prejudicial notions. That may have been the case in 1950, but not in 2013. There is more equality now, and it's not the past anymore. If anything, it has now been said that white people are becoming the minority. I can certainly feel that living in New York sometimes. There are many black people, and hispanic, and Indian (I don't know what the term is for those people). It's not "exclusively white" , though it may have seemed more so around 1973. Just as an aside -- you'll notice it's still okay to say "shorty", or "Fats", or "Pizza-Face", and that those groups do not enjoy the "respect and protection" that other groups get... which is why I deplore the concept of 'political correctness" --- But what I don't think you understand is that singling out group names is a useful way to differentiate when necessary. I mean, you may say "was it the tall guy or the short guy?"... "Was it the fat guy or the skinny guy?"... "Was it the black guy or the white guy...?" ... if you see what I mean, it's just a way to identify people at a glance when we may have to. (No, I'm not trying to suggest that we must not truly look at a whole person's soul and personality).. Stop for a second. Can you see that this is in itself a prejudicial statement? So "all whites" are automatically free of any kind of discrimination? Isn't that kind of lumping one whole group into one stereotype? If a white person walked down the street in Harlem, I can guarantee you that there is something attached to it and that he would stand out! You don't think white people feel discriminated against? It is automatically assumed by many black people that whites are "inherently racist". I would be considered anti-black or racist, just because I am a white man. I recall my ex-wife, who was the biggest liberal and non-racist ever, one time siding with a white person on some black/white issue -- and all her black co-workers instantaneously labeled her "racist"! Can you believe it? Even a bleeding heart, self-hating white liberal may be labeled "racist" if they dare to ever legitimately side with a white person. I feel that these days it is mostly blacks who tend to view everything as a "color issue".. and this goes right to the current Trayvon Martin Case. Never mind the evidence, never mind the details -- George Zimmerman shot Martin, so the man is automatically branded a "racist" and "anti-black", PERIOD. They don't consider anything else. In voting for President Obama, you can bet that almost all black people voted to have a black man for president, while I'm sure there are 50-50 in the white community, many who saw past color and voted for him because they liked Obama. I think it's okay even if it's conscious in some cases. Why? Because you have to go by what the climate is. Twenty years ago I went to Arizona and we went over the border into Mexico. Now, people have always said that I appear to look mexican or hispanic, even though I am white. Well, on the way back into Arizona, everyone else in my party got through customs fine -- but they held me back for some time, making me prove that I was not Mexican! I am a more olive-skinned white person, and I had a big moustache back then --so what is this, am I being discriminated against because I have dark hair and a moustache?? Well, no -- it was a bit embarrassing, but I understood why I was being profiled... because I fit the description. Similarly, after the 9/11 attacks, it made perfect sense to profile muslims, or anyone who appears muslim. If there is an overwhelming abundance of high black crime in a city, it makes sense to be more tuned into profiling black people. How about teenagers in schools today? With all the school shootings and bombings, does it not make sense to profile teenagers more carefully when going into class? Of course it is not fair to all the "innocent people"... but would you prefer that cops and law enforcement do NOTHING and let everyone go about doing their own thing, for fear of being branded "racists" and losing their jobs and not being able to feed their families?? I think THIS is more what you should worry about, sayne. It is a dangerous thing if we make cops afraid to do their jobs. Again you are looking back "historically". Why is it okay to keep branding white people today as "racists" with a broad brush, who are always supposed to be self-hating and guilty? I wasn't alive 200 years ago, and I was only a child in the '60s. I did not "create" anything... Political Correctness is wrong because it favors one group (or groups) over others. It was wrong in 1930 and it is just as wrong in 2013. You do not correct racism or discrimination by turning the tables and then making the other guy take it on the bottom. But it seems this method is okay with you, or am I misreading you? What do you mean about "having to change"? I am not going to change if i don't want to, though I will change where I feel it makes sense. Putting blacks on a pedestal and gracing them with a special "African-Amercian" gloss, while I remain "white", is not something I am going to partake in, sorry. On the other hand, I do use the word "Asian" instead of "Chinese", "Japanese", etc, because I don't always instantly know if an Asian person is either when I refer to them. I also want to take back the word "gay", and I'd prefer to call those people "homosexuals" -- however, the reason I find myself saying and writing "gay" so willingly is because it's much easier!
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 14, 2013 9:15:09 GMT -5
I once got pulled over by five cop cars and officers with their guns out, pointing straight at me because my car had a coat of primer on it instead of paint. I had rust spots and my guy sanded it down and primed it to keep it from rusting further.
After they patted me down and searched my car thoroughly, they told me I could go. "Pain the damn car!". I fit a profile.
I am a white guy. Just saying so to keep this story in perspective.
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Post by sayne on Jul 14, 2013 11:33:39 GMT -5
I once got pulled over by five cop cars and officers with their guns out, pointing straight at me because my car had a coat of primer on it instead of paint. I had rust spots and my guy sanded it down and primed it to keep it from rusting further. After they patted me down and searched my car thoroughly, they told me I could go. "Pain the damn car!". I fit a profile. I am a white guy. Just saying so to keep this story in perspective. You were most likely pulled over for what I have called a secondary or tertiary reason, not because you were white. A non-white would have been pulled over for the same thing. But, if you and an African-American were each driving a fancy Mercedes, which one of you do you REALLY think would be pulled over for the suspicion of driving a stolen vehicle?
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 14, 2013 12:20:56 GMT -5
"We make them paint their face and dance." Ughh. That whole album has got to be the nadir of Lennon as a lyricist. Oh, I forgot about that line. It's the only line I like in the whole song. It's like for a second he forgets the feminism point and wants to see the girl dance for him. "Dance, dance, dance, dance...". I love it! LOL, in the evening "One To One" Concert, John goes really nuts on the, "Dance, dance, dance...we make her paint her face and dance...." So debjorgo, you think John is zoning back mentally to that scene in MMT where he is in a strip club!
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Post by sayne on Jul 14, 2013 12:32:29 GMT -5
You've written a lot. I have no intention of going point by point, for I know nothing I will say will change your mind. Your views are firmly engrained. But, here are some thoughts: 1. I have no problem using the term "black." 2. Are race relations better now than in the 50's? Perhaps, but for anyone to think all is well is denying hidden soft underbelly of real race relations in the United States. 3. I think if your entire life and the lives of your parents and relations had been a life of constantly being questioned, suspected, pulled over, mistrusted, feared and so on, I doubt if you would have been so jovial and understanding about being pulled out of line. 4. Blacks are used to going into or living in places and being the only blacks. This is quite normal for them. Usually no big deal. How many whites would live in an apartment complex or gated community if they were the only whites? Not many, I assume. Not because the blacks would not be welcoming them, but because how they themselves would feel. 5. Would you continue to call a person "Shorty" or "Fats" if they told you not to call them that or would you accuse them of being politically correct? 6. I've never branded white people as being racist. What I will say is that ALL Americans have conscious and unconscious negative and positive biases based on race. Even blacks do. Even white people who say they have black friends or relatives. Even I do. It's these bias that we are unaware of that determine how we see people and deal with them, sometimes on a level that we are not aware of. This does not mean people are racist, but it does mean that we are all capable of, if not being racist, being able to use race to make our decisions about people. Here is a challenge to you. Really, I hope you and others try it. It's all confidential. Go to this website: linkIt's a longitudinal study on "implicit" views that govern all of us. This study is not meant to PROVE anything, nor is it meant to say WHAT your are. But, what I think it does do is to show how all of us have implicit and compartmentalized views of things and people. We then interpret those views "flowers good, weeds bad." Once we interpret, we label "parkland vs weed patch." Once we label, we act accordingly. The test takes about 12 minutes. My wife took it and found that she generally does not have negative implicit biases on race. I took the test and found that I slightly DO have negative biases. This became useful to me because it makes me watch what I say and how I act. Please do try it. You will see a bunch of different and interesting tests. I intend to take the others some day. Click the race one. If one wants to dismiss it afterwards, fine. But, I think if one really thinks of themselves as an open-minded person willing to change ones mind when given certain pieces of information, then one will give it a fair shot.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 14, 2013 12:46:05 GMT -5
[You were most likely pulled over for what I have called a secondary or tertiary reason, not because you were white. A non-white would have been pulled over for the same thing. But, if you and an African-American were each driving a fancy Mercedes, which one of you do you REALLY think would be pulled over for the suspicion of driving a stolen vehicle? Sayne... Be sane! If the profile in a certain area happens to be one type of person or another, then that is who will be pulled over. (I have addressed this issue more fully in my other long post which I will hope you'll consider). I had my car stolen in 1991 and it was taken by a 17 year-old piece of vermin with a record 100 miles long, who just happened to be hispanic. The only reason my car was found by a really terrific policeman was because he saw a teenage hispanic driving my car and this punk fit the profile. So on a mere hunch, the cop pulled him over, and guess what? He was the thief! Now, okay -- perhaps the cop could have pulled over another 5 innocent hispanic teenage suspects that day who fit the current profile and who were not guilty of anything ... but it was worth it to save one guy's car and get that creep indicted (I had to spend the entire day in court back then just to make sure he paid and got indicted). I am damn grateful that this cop did some "profiling" that day. Do you really want cops to fall asleep on the job and turn a blind eye to these things, just to not risk hurting some feelings out there? By the way, I would also say the same for any white punk who fit any certain profile or type -- if it was some freaky looking long-haired dude who looked strung out or something, the police should follow their instincts as well. I am reminded of when I was only 21 or so, and I had my first car. Sometimes my friends and I would just park in front of my house (or their houses) late on Friday or Saturday nights, after a night of clubbing or whatever. I can't tell you how many times a police car drove up to us and asked us what we were doing there, and to show us our license. Many a time I had to produce my driver's license for proof that I lived in this house right here. So what? It did feel something of an intrusion at that time in my life, but i perfectly understand it now. We either looked suspicious and up to no good, or some home owners would spot us and call the police. We were being dicrimnated against because we were "young people hanging out in a car in front of a house very late at night".
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 14, 2013 13:05:36 GMT -5
You've written a lot. I have no intention of going point by point, for I know nothing I will say will change your mind. Your views are firmly engrained. But, here are some thoughts: Since I have covered everything and took the time, I'd hoped you'd address the issues fully, if you can. And on the contrary, on many issues in my life I have "changed my mind" if someone could convince me otherwise. And how about you...? Has anything I have explained to you given you pause to think about it, or are YOUR views also "firmly engrained"...? Race relations are better, but if anyone ever thinks they'll go away 100% for every human being forever, they're delusional. As long as there are humans there will be some kind of racial tensions. Right now everyone who is black seems to automatically think George Zimmerman is "guilty", without considering anything other than the fact that Trayvon Martin was black. Racism exists today, but it is mainly what they call "Reverse Discrimination". (I hate that term; Discrimination is Discrimnation... but there you have it). First, I think you're assuming too much that the blacks would automatically be welcoming... there are black neighborhoods who wouldn't want "nasty ass crackers" living there, too. I'm sure no bleeding heart liberal white people like Alan Colmes would ever live in an all-black community, I'll give you that. And you have got to be kidding -- why would someone want to live in a neighborhood like Harlem or Beford Stuyvesant if there were guns being shot everywhere and people being killed on every street corner, and syringes on the ground? That is common sense and self-preservation. (I am only speaking of neighborhoods I know about in NY - I don't know about the rest of the country). But moreover -- i think it is "natural" to generally feel more at home with your own (and that's not just exclusively relating to skin color). I think it's a shame that people are made to feel "bad" for that. I'd just feel more comfortable in a white bar than a black one, or a Beatles Forum instead of a Led Zeppelin Forum. Right after I complete this post, the gal and I are going to a barbecue where we are expected to be the only couple there over college age! - so naturally we're going to feel a little awkward about that too, right? "Political Correctness" looms far larger in the big system than just one person here and there saying not to call them a name like "Fats" or "Shorty". Yes, as a general rule I don't call anyone a name if they tell me they don't like it. But what about TV, Movies, The News?? It's still a permissable Field Day out there for fat, short, tall, skinny, bald people. Somehow those groups' feelings are thought to matter less, I guess. And by the way, I don't go around calling black people the 'N Word', either... Where are all the black people who feel that, based on the evidence provided, George Zimmerman was "Not Guilty"? Would they be labeled "Uncle Tom's"? These are the same folks who felt OJ Simpson was "Not Guilty" because there "was reasonable doubt"... I will look later -- right now I am late getting into the shower and leaving for a barbecue! I will check it out probably tomorrow - but i really wish Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would take the test!
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 14, 2013 13:12:39 GMT -5
In the name of PC I demand that from now on people refer to my race as People of Colorlessness.
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 14, 2013 13:42:13 GMT -5
... there are black neighborhoods who wouldn't want "nasty ass crackers" living there, too. You know, I think women are the crackers of the world. Think about it!
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 14, 2013 15:42:25 GMT -5
[First, I think you're assuming too much that the blacks would automatically be welcoming... there are black neighborhoods who wouldn't want "nasty ass crackers" living there, too. I'm sure no bleeding heart liberal white people like Alan Colmes would ever live in an all-black community, I'll give you that. There was a story in the paper just a couple weeks ago (unlike the Zimmerman story it wasn't frontpage news but just a small blurb on page 42) where this white guy and his wife and daughter pulled into a gas station in a black neighborhood. Some of the blacks told them they didn't belong in "their" neighborhood and proceeded to beat the guy practically to death. Where's the outrage over this kind of racial profiling? The silence from all these PC imbeciles is deafening. And I can tell you, as a guy who's spent 30 years living on the street scene and in "bad neighborhoods" and has lived amongst blacks for most of my life (unlike ivory tower frauds like Alan Colmes), I can tell you, this kind of shit is far too common. Its why I have no respect for PC and never will. Because these PC liberals in fact are the biggest racists. According to PC orthodoxy, only white people are ever condemned for their "racism." Talk about a racist double-standard. Don't get me started.
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Post by vectisfabber on Jul 14, 2013 17:57:40 GMT -5
In the name of PC I demand that from now on people refer to my race as People of Colorlessness. Can't we call you "The Transparenties"?
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 14, 2013 18:25:17 GMT -5
Ha ha. Works for me. Call me a Transparenties American.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Jul 14, 2013 18:26:51 GMT -5
Joe will probably accuse me of being "anti Lennon" but i always found WATNOTW to be odious. Personally i like strong women. But all that righteous 70s feminism BS. Sheesh. Reminds me of a Saturday Night Live routine where a feminist author was plugging a book "Women Good Men Bad." WITNOTW is very much a product of the times it was recorded in. I don't think Lennon probably would have recorded it the same way today.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 14, 2013 22:51:19 GMT -5
Its why I have no respect for PC and never will. Because these PC liberals in fact are the biggest racists. According to PC orthodoxy, only white people are ever condemned for their "racism." Talk about a racist double-standard. Don't get me started. Ace, I see you and I have the same feelings on this subject. I guess if we ever have a Lennon or McCartney wedge, we can always agree on this stuff. Peace!
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Post by sayne on Jul 14, 2013 23:15:38 GMT -5
. . . We were being dicrimnated against because we were "young people hanging out in a car in front of a house very late at night". Yes, not because you were white. Again, another example of a secondary or tertiary reason. We are talking about RACIAL profiling, so you guys being hassled by the cops does not put you guys in the same category as blacks being hassled. You were being hassled for what you were DOING, whereas Blacks and Hispanics get hassled for WHAT they are. If they happened to be DOING something untoward, too, whoa, Nelly!
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Post by sayne on Jul 14, 2013 23:27:00 GMT -5
. . . - but i really wish Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would take the test! Actually, they would probably find that they, too, have implicit negative views of blacks. The study found that about 70% of Whites carry implicit negative views of Blacks and about 40% of Blacks do, too. The reason for this is because Blacks are exposed to the same negative images of Blacks as the rest of us. If you think of the PREPONDERANCE of negative images and the dearth of positive images of Blacks, it's no wonder that even Blacks would have implicit negative views of Blacks. There was a study back in the 50's, I think, where little Black girls were given a choice of playing with a white doll or a black doll. The majority of them chose the white doll. When asked why, they said "she" was prettier and smarter than the black doll. Why would little black girls say that? It was concluded that the way whites were portrayed in the media was far more positive than how blacks were. Constantly seeing negative images of people who look like you can have a detrimental influence on how one sees themselves. Hence, the reason why even Blacks harbor subconscious negative biases about Blacks and why it is important to build up the self-esteem of little Black kids.
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