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Post by sayne on Jul 14, 2013 23:30:53 GMT -5
. . . Since I have covered everything and took the time, I'd hoped you'd address the issues fully, if you can. I don't want to be rude or dismissive, but you wrote so much that I'm kinda lazy to comment as deeply and thoroughly as you'd like or as you deserve. I'm sorry. I don't want this to be like the marathon back and forth you had with that other poster. That was a bit much, I think.
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Post by sayne on Jul 14, 2013 23:32:58 GMT -5
. . . I feel people really need to start growing a thicker skin . . . That's easy to say until your skin starts being pricked.
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Post by sayne on Jul 14, 2013 23:45:10 GMT -5
. . . Right now everyone who is black seems to automatically think George Zimmerman is "guilty", without considering anything other than the fact that Trayvon Martin was black. Racism exists today, but it is mainly what they call "Reverse Discrimination" . . . Do you REALLY think that George Zimmerman would have gone after the kid if he was white? Do you know that the vast majority of calls he made to the cops about "suspicious" people were when he saw black people? Why weren't white people he did not know alarm him enough to call the police on them? He may not have killed him because he was black, but he went after him because he was. What crime was Trayvon Martin committing? He was walking home. That is why profiling is bad. For everyone the cops get right, on a hunch, there are larger numbers where they get it wrong. Now, you may say that that is okay, but that is not how our system works. In our system, it is better to let one guilty person go free at the expense of not violating the rights of 9 innocent people, rather than to catch one guilty person while violating the rights of 9 innocents. Don't like that? Well, then we disagree on the type of America we want.
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Post by sayne on Jul 14, 2013 23:49:27 GMT -5
. . . Has anything I have explained to you given you pause to think about it, or are YOUR views also "firmly engrained"...? Yes, I admit, my views are very engrained, as well. My engrained views are founded upon love and understanding, not fear and loathing.
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Post by nicole21290 on Jul 15, 2013 0:09:48 GMT -5
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 15, 2013 1:52:31 GMT -5
Joe you are one cool cat. And that goes for Sayne too and John and Steve and Debjorgo and Vecti and Panther and Scousette and Low Basso and Old Fred and needless to say Pepperland and everybody else. The Beatles should be honored that they have such cool fans.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 15, 2013 8:34:29 GMT -5
. . . I feel people really need to start growing a thicker skin . . . That's easy to say until your skin starts being pricked. Yeah, like my skin gets pricked on my job, when former minorities now have more clout in the workplace. Or when George Zimmerman defends himself because Trayvon Martin breaks his nose and bashed his head into the concrete. I know what you mean.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 15, 2013 8:41:02 GMT -5
. . . We were being dicrimnated against because we were "young people hanging out in a car in front of a house very late at night". Yes, not because you were white. Again, another example of a secondary or tertiary reason. We are talking about RACIAL profiling, so you guys being hassled by the cops does not put you guys in the same category as blacks being hassled. You were being hassled for what you were DOING, whereas Blacks and Hispanics get hassled for WHAT they are. If they happened to be DOING something untoward, too, whoa, Nelly! What difference does it make if you're discriminated against because of your skin color, your age, your hair, your tattoos, your weight, or anything else? And why do you ignore everything else I have written, such as my being profiled when crossing from Mexico back into Arizona, just because of my appearance? Why do you ignore all the times I have explained to you that I am discriminated against at my own workplace because I am white? That's why PC is such utter nonsense. And frankly I'm growing tired of debating this with you because you just don't play fair and are inconsistent. You carefully cherry pick a line or two here and there out of all the wisdom I'm teaching you, and only highlight a line here and there which can help you push your agenda.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 15, 2013 9:09:36 GMT -5
Do you REALLY think that George Zimmerman would have gone after the kid if he was white? Do you know that the vast majority of calls he made to the cops about "suspicious" people were when he saw black people? Why weren't white people he did not know alarm him enough to call the police on them? He may not have killed him because he was black, but he went after him because he was. I don't think this has been proven at all. How do you know Zimmerman only followed Martin because he was black? How do you know he wouldn't have followed a white person in a hoodie that looked like he was up to no good, even though he wasn't? And even if he did, he is entitled to follow him and it is not against the law. Trayvon committed no crime, this was a terrible tragedy. However, by the only evidence we do have, it was determined that Trayvon started getting atop Zimmerman and pounding his head into the concrete and breaking his nose, and that Zimmerman felt he had to fire his gun to save himself. THAT was when Trayvon went over the line of what is acceptable under the circumstances. If someone's following me, I will not turn and beat the living crap out of him. It doesn't matter what occurred prior to that situation. I'm glad to live in an America (well, at least for the time being under this proper verdict - I'm sure that will change in the future) where jurors don't guess what "might" have been in a person's mind, or what "might have happened". The burden of proof is on the prosecution, and the prosecution failed to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was "guilty". (You'll notice the same racists like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson did not speak out at all when that murderer OJ Simpson was freed -- they said there was "reasonable doubt" there, where it was cut and dry that OJ was the murderer). Think of Trayvon as a person profiled and pulled over while driving. It may be very unfair to an innocent person to be singled out based on his race or appearance. But if that person starts pummeling the policeman (which is essentially what occurred in the Zimmerman case), then the officer is allowed to use deadly force if necessary to protect himself. So you want an America where nobody suspicious looking gets stopped, and they can go through the cracks and kill people -- and all so that some innocent folks along the way won't get inconvenienced? I was inconvenienced because I was presumed to be Mexican... but if I had started beating up the officials who questioned me, I am then in the wrong. Yes, I was discriminated against when I was constantly approached by policemen every time I sat in my car late at night with my friends just because of who I was at that time - a 19 to 21 aged kid, which I could not help being. So what if I felt violated a bit, if it would have spared someone getting their home invaded or worse? Age discrimination is the same thing of being profiled for "what you are" as is skin color. I think racial profiling is a necessity, especially today. I want every muslim person, for example, to be stopped and searched near an airport. Too bad if 19 out of 20 are offended -- if it would save the lives of many victims of terrorism, it was worth risking some people's displeasure. As I said before, and of course which you would not concede, we do not want an America where cops turn a fearful blind eye to everything, lest they be branded "racist".
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 15, 2013 9:22:50 GMT -5
. . . Has anything I have explained to you given you pause to think about it, or are YOUR views also "firmly engrained"...? Yes, I admit, my views are very engrained, as well. My engrained views are founded upon love and understanding, not fear and loathing. And with this comment, we are done here. I was interested in taking your 'test', but won't now as I don't need you implying that my views are of "fear and loathing", and that you are some kind of halo-wearing symbol of "love and understanding". Push your agenda to someone else, as I will have no more part of it.
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Post by sayne on Jul 15, 2013 9:30:55 GMT -5
You carefully cherry pick a line or two here and there out of all the wisdom I'm teaching you, and only highlight a line here and there which can help you push your agenda. It's because you say so many brilliant things. It's a buffet of intellectual and well-thought out ideas. It's so hard not to be a glutton and address it all. Picking and choosing from the articulate buffet you serve and only sampling the best and most savory to me is the sensible approach for me. Others may like to go full bore and gorge themselves on the entire menu you offer, but I prefer to be more moderate.
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Post by sayne on Jul 15, 2013 9:47:25 GMT -5
Yes, I admit, my views are very engrained, as well. My engrained views are founded upon love and understanding, not fear and loathing. And with this comment, we are done here. I was interested in taking your 'test', but won't now as I don't need you implying that my views are of "fear and loathing", and that you are some kind of halo-wearing symbol of "love and understanding". Push your agenda to someone else, as I will have no more part of it. Okay, that's cool. Although I don't think you are a racist, I think you really do have some engrained unhealthy and unproductive views on race. That's your right, but I think it's getting in the way of a lot of things for you. I know I've just angered you, but you really should take the test. Don't NOT take it because you're mad at me. You won't be "showing" me by not taking it. Shakespeare said, "To thine own self be true." It's good that you are true to yourself, but one of the purposes of life is for us to learn to know ourselves. Most of the time we hide our true selves, to others and ourselves, in some way. Even you. Even me. I discover new things about myself all the time. Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad. So, if we want to be true to ourselves, it's important know what kind of self we really are. When I took the Harvard test, I was not happy to find out that I probably do possess some negative engrained knee-jerk impressions about race. I now try to live my life more carefully in this regards. I'm okay with moving on from this discussion with you. Everyone else though is fair game.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 15, 2013 10:26:19 GMT -5
I think you really do have some engrained unhealthy and unproductive views on race. That's your right, but I think it's getting in the way of a lot of things for you. My arguments make perfect sense if you would pay attention to them and consider them. And I also resent this opinion of yours, though naturally you are entitled to it. And I am not just playing "tit for tat" and "I'm rubber you're glue" when I say that I equally think YOU have unproductive and unhealthy views on race. And probably the people who have the most unproductive and unhealthy views on race are most black people... because I have heard and seen plenty of black commentators since the Zimmerman verdict, on TV and even here on Talk Radio as I type, and they all automatically think Zimmerman is "guilty", just because they see nothing else but a black victim. They still think it's 200 years ago and they'll never let that go.... so how is that rigid thinking productive? So I really would urge you to go and "enlighten" them -- not me. I would literally bet my life that if Zimmerman had been black and Martin had been white, the black community would completely reverse their verdict. Meanwhile, there are plenty of liberal white Americans who are split on the verdict and are capable of seeing beyond color. I really think we need to be done on this. We do not agree, and the same things you think of my views, I think of yours. I think we have covered this more than enough, and I'm thinking I am safe in taking the liberty of saying that I think you feel that way, too. Don't count on anyone else chiming in too much... most people who feel as I do choose to take the low road, and to keep their views to themselves. (It was refreshing to hear Acebackwards speaking up a bit, however ) . Because they don't want to be branded - if not "racist", which is always the stifling buzz word of choice to shut them down - then at least called out as having alleged "unhealthy views", or whatever. It is a trick that people with liberal agendas have been perpetrating for the past 30 years or so. But it's getting better, thankfully -- white people are slowly but surely getting more and more tired of being depicted as "racist" and "guilty" for being white. And this very smart and just verdict was a step in the right direction. (And George Zimmerman was not even white). You know in your heart that if that jury had been all-black, Zimmerman's head would be in a noose right now, and to hell with the lack of evidence* *One last note here on the verdict - I think Zimmerman is probably guilty of "neglect", and should have gotten some kind of lower sentence... if the prosecution had put that option on the table, maybe there would have been a penalty for Zimmerman. But of course they didn't want to ask for that as a "compromise"; no --- they only wanted to fry George Zimmerman, so they went for Second Degree Murder.
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Post by nicole21290 on Jul 15, 2013 11:46:41 GMT -5
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 15, 2013 17:27:56 GMT -5
Joe you are one cool cat. And that goes for Sayne too and John and Steve and Debjorgo and Vecti and Panther and Scousette and Low Basso and Old Fred and needless to say Pepperland and everybody else. The Beatles should be honored that they have such cool fans. Why Ace that is a beautiful thing and I have always felt the deepest respect and friendship here for the posters even when we are in firefights. I have come to view you as a genuine folk hero and I want to give you a man hug but you'd learn I was in town and try to hide from me, not fully trusting my motives! That by the way, that anecdote was another great post from you when you told us an admirer of your writings came to seek you out and you hid from him!
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 15, 2013 17:42:48 GMT -5
"Eleven Cool Cats"... sounds like a hit.
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 15, 2013 20:38:37 GMT -5
"Eleven Cool Cats"... sounds like a hit. 12 Cool Cats, including Ace. Although I can't help but think there is some sarcasm there on his behalf.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 15, 2013 21:05:17 GMT -5
"Eleven Cool Cats"... sounds like a hit. 12 Cool Cats, including Ace. Although I can't help but think there is some sarcasm there on his behalf. Yes, 12 Cool Cats including Ace. (Which sounds like an even better hit than eleven). I'm sorry, Ace listed 11 and I only counted 11 - wasn't thinking. (I don't know if you meant I was being sarcastic in leaving him out, but if you were, that wasn't the case). Just was having a good-natured group hug to ease the tension.
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 15, 2013 21:35:51 GMT -5
12 Cool Cats, including Ace. Although I can't help but think there is some sarcasm there on his behalf. Yes, 12 Cool Cats including Ace. (Which sounds like an even better hit than eleven). I'm sorry, Ace listed 11 and I only counted 11 - wasn't thinking. (I don't know if you meant I was being sarcastic in leaving him out, but if you were, that wasn't the case). Just was having a good-natured group hug to ease the tension. No, I meant Ace was being sarcastic. I started to just reply to him with "Smart a$! ( )" But then I thought, by golly, he could be serious.
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 15, 2013 21:42:53 GMT -5
No i wasn't being sarcastic. The Beatles should indeed be honored that they have such intelligent, sensitive and soulful fans as us. Hopefully we make up for all the nutter Beatles fans they also have to deal with.
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 15, 2013 21:46:07 GMT -5
Now I'm gonna take a page from McCartney's playbook and take a break from posting to "soak it all in."
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 15, 2013 22:20:35 GMT -5
And i wasnt being sarcastic with that last post either. But somehow my wise ass side always comes out even when im trying to be sincere.
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Post by sayne on Jul 15, 2013 22:59:42 GMT -5
Joe you are one cool cat. And that goes for Sayne too and John and Steve and Debjorgo and Vecti and Panther and Scousette and Low Basso and Old Fred and needless to say Pepperland and everybody else. The Beatles should be honored that they have such cool fans. Why Ace that is a beautiful thing and I have always felt the deepest respect and friendship here for the posters even when we are in firefights. I have come to view you as a genuine folk hero and I want to give you a man hug but you'd learn I was in town and try to hide from me, not fully trusting my motives! That by the way, that anecdote was another great post from you when you told us an admirer of your writings came to seek you out and you hid from him!
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Post by sayne on Jul 15, 2013 23:03:18 GMT -5
"Eleven Cool Cats"... sounds like a hit. 12 Cool Cats, including Ace. Although I can't help but think there is some sarcasm there on his behalf. No, I think 11 was right . . . possibly 10.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 19, 2013 0:02:55 GMT -5
Friday night I tackle the 2010 Mind Games. I have never played that specific version despite owning it since its release.
I was momentarily sidetracked and intoxicated by the recent McCartney Indiana appearance but leave it to someone to quickly snap me out of that dead-end nostalgia.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 22, 2013 22:12:05 GMT -5
Sunday in my car I finally played the re-mastered 2010 Mind Games. Interesting album. Certainly better than STINYC and the sonics here are light years better than the original MG compact disc of the late 1980's. I think I still like the re-mixed and re-mastered version from 2002 better(I hear cool things going on that get jumbled in John's original mix) but this is how John heard it and wanted us to hear it.
Whatever MG's weaknesses, it has the title song "Mind Games" one of my all time favorite solo Beatles' songs. There are really cool, adventurous, noble sounding things going on in the song: 1. Pushing the barriers planting seeds 2. Chanting the Mantra peace on earth 3. Some kinda druid dudes lifting the veil 4. Some call it magic the search for the grail 5. Faith in the future out of the now 6. Absolute elsewhere in the stones of your mind 7. Projecting our images in space and in time 8. Doing the ritual dance in the sun 9. Putting their soul power to the karmic wheel 10. Raising the spirit of peace and love.
"Tight A$" rocked hard and "Aisumasen (I'm Sorry)" sounded very good. A great start, John batting three for three. But then "One Day (At a Time)" which blows in falsetto. I actually like the version(maybe Lennon Anthology) where John sings in his normal voice. Wow, how did he blow that decision by using the falsetto version?? "Bring on the Lucie (Freeda Peeple)" is a strong ending (Nutopian International Anthem is so passe by 1973!), John singing in powerful voice.
"Intuition" could be a very good song but the arrangement is so cheesy, so lounge lizard. Somehow John needs to POB it, make it sound like it is from that album. John could have toughened the backing without taking away from the optimism, hey, hey, hey, hey, alright! "Out the Blue" is better but it has some lazy lyrics "I thank the lord and lady" and perhaps could have used McCartney's touch for some of it. "Only People" blows, again, a cheesy arrangement. And the lyrics are so bi-polar, campfire "Kumbaya' then all of a sudden, "we don't need no pig brother scene." Wow, did John really think he had an anthem on this one. I think it hilarious this was used in a corporate commercial sans "we don't need no pig brother scene."
"I Know (I Know)" is my second favorite next to the title song. I am sure this is aimed at Paul and not Yoko. Can I prove it, no just my gut sense. A very beautiful song that clearly John spent some time on recording. "You Are Here" is beautiful and works despite those female vocals in it! "Meat City" rocks, I like it more now than I did as a kid. I like the "Well I'm going to China, to see for myself" line.
Mind Games was a very good listen in the car loud. The only absolute stinker is "Only People." "One Day At A Time" would be cool if John sung it normal and not like some Elton John wannabe(EJ of course covered this song). "Intuition" could have been awesome if John did a good backing for it and not that lounge lizard arrangement. Rock it up with electric guitars or a real piano like "Remember" from POB. The organ and/or electric keyboards just suck big time on that song.
Still, a nice effort and Mind Games deserves a better fate than accorded it. John needed Keith Richards or another rocker(since Paul wasn't available or asked) to help him toughen up the sound then it'd be a masterpiece!
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 22, 2013 22:58:28 GMT -5
Sunday in my car I finally played the re-mastered 2010 Mind Games. Interesting album. Certainly better than STINYC and the sonics here are light years better than the original MG compact disc of the late 1980's. I think I still like the re-mixed and re-mastered version from 2002 better(I hear cool things going on that get jumbled in John's original mix) but this is how John heard it and wanted us to hear it. Whatever MG's weaknesses, it has the title song "Mind Games" one of my all time favorite solo Beatles' songs. There are really cool, adventurous, noble sounding things going on in the song: 1. Pushing the barriers planting seeds 2. Chanting the Mantra peace on earth 3. Some kinda druid dudes lifting the veil 4. Some call it magic the search for the grail 5. Faith in the future out of the now 6. Absolute elsewhere in the stones of your mind 7. Projecting our images in space and in time 8. Doing the ritual dance in the sun 9. Putting their soul power to the karmic wheel 10. Raising the spirit of peace and love. "Tight A$" rocked hard and "Aisumasen (I'm Sorry)" sounded very good. A great start, John batting three for three. But then "One Day (At a Time)" which blows in falsetto. I actually like the version(maybe Lennon Anthology) where John sings in his normal voice. Wow, how did he blow that decision by using the falsetto version?? "Bring on the Lucie (Freeda Peeple)" is a strong ending (Nutopian International Anthem is so passe by 1973!), John singing in powerful voice. "Intuition" could be a very good song but the arrangement is so cheesy, so lounge lizard. Somehow John needs to POB it, make it sound like it is from that album. John could have toughened the backing without taking away from the optimism, hey, hey, hey, hey, alright! "Out the Blue" is better but it has some lazy lyrics "I thank the lord and lady" and perhaps could have used McCartney's touch for some of it. "Only People" blows, again, a cheesy arrangement. And the lyrics are so bi-polar, campfire "Kumbaya' then all of a sudden, "we don't need no pig brother scene." Wow, did John really think he had an anthem on this one. I think it hilarious this was used in a corporate commercial sans "we don't need no pig brother scene." "I Know (I Know)" is my second favorite next to the title song. I am sure this is aimed at Paul and not Yoko. Can I prove it, no just my gut sense. A very beautiful song that clearly John spent some time on recording. "You Are Here" is beautiful and works despite those female vocals in it! "Meat City" rocks, I like it more now than I did as a kid. I like the "Well I'm going to China, to see for myself" line. Mind Games was a very good listen in the car loud. The only absolute stinker is "Only People." "One Day At A Time" would be cool if John sung it normal and not like some Elton John wannabe(EJ of course covered this song). "Intuition" could have been awesome if John did a good backing for it and not that lounge lizard arrangement. Rock it up with electric guitars or a real piano like "Remember" from POB. The organ and/or electric keyboards just suck big time on that song. Still, a nice effort and Mind Games deserves a better fate than accorded it. John needed Keith Richards or another rocker(since Paul wasn't available or asked) to help him toughen up the sound then it'd be a masterpiece! 11. Looooooooooaoooooveaooooove. Paul. How about Paul on Mind Games, the song, actually working like partner? There's no way he would have let those syrupy strings stay on it. (I agree, Great song, don't get me wrong!) Paul: "I got this song Bip Bop. It goes like... listen... the guitar is kinda... and then...., you know... maybe in the fade out."
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 23, 2013 6:51:14 GMT -5
But then "One Day (At a Time)" which blows in falsetto. I actually like the version(maybe Lennon Anthology) where John sings in his normal voice. Wow, how did he blow that decision by using the falsetto version?? I've come to enjoy the falsetto version, especially coming after the first three, it offers a different vibe and sound. The lyrics make the song for me here, mainly. But I like the corny commercial bop of it as well. I think toughening it up would take away from the la de da and casual vibe of the song, which I think is the point. Not hard to see why it was used in a commercial; it's a catchy song musically. It's not one of John's better songs but I can enjoy it. Biggest negative for me is that it just sounds so dated and of its time. Well, not everything can be a masterpiece (John already had that with POB and IMAGINE). Then he had STINYC which is his "flop", and MG I'd guess is his "decent" LP.
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Post by sayne on Jul 23, 2013 10:32:12 GMT -5
I was disappointed that no one bothered to comment on the song, whether they were turned on to the song for the first time and loved it or fondly remembered the song and the band Guadalcanal Diary (yes, REM clone). No matters.
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Post by mikev on Jul 23, 2013 13:34:06 GMT -5
I was disappointed that no one bothered to comment on the song, whether they were turned on to the song for the first time and loved it or fondly remembered the song and the band Guadalcanal Diary (yes, REM clone). No matters. I'll admit, I'm behind on videos. Never heard of these guys, but the song reminded me of an REM rarity cover of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight"
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